Idea: Highly Detailed Social "Combat"

[Robin Hood]

Hi all, This is my first post, although I have been into RPGs & game design for some years. I would like to  table a concept that has been plaguing me for critique and suggestion:

Idea:
Have some form of "social combat" system to run parralell to a conventional "physical combat" system in the game I am developing. The setting is a kind of anime styled sci-fantasy with a feudal japanese culture, and the idea comes out of the strict rules and sense of honour that governs this type of society, and the level to which social manipulation plays a very large role.

The System would have "Honour" and/or "Status" as a substitute to "Hit Points". With the opposing parties using varying forms of manipulation, insults and innuendo to lower the opponent's social standing to the point where they acquiesce (in whatever form that may be).

What do you think of this as a general concept (noting that it is only relevant within this, or similar types of settings)?

I have not discussed specifics of where I have gone with the concept so far, as I am more interested in criticism or critique of the idea as a whole, and fresh ideas of where I could take it.

Looking forward to hearing what y'all have to say!

[Eero Tuovinen]

What do you think of this as a general concept (noting that it is only relevant within this, or similar types of settings)?

Various games include this concept. Examples of explicit, concurrent fighting/social rules are in both Dying Earth and Paranoia XP (in the latter case it's about legal rules, actually, but the principle is the same). Examples of implicit rules abound: any game that uses the same system for both is one. Some such games are Trollbabe, My Life with Master, Heroquest and the Pool, to name a few. Generally, a game that concerns itself with conflicts instead of tasks will most likely handle social situations through similar rules as compared to any other conflict.

It's a good concept, and one worth using if the goals of the design support it.

The System would have "Honour" and/or "Status" as a substitute to "Hit Points". With the opposing parties using varying forms of manipulation, insults and innuendo to lower the opponent's social standing to the point where they acquiesce (in whatever form that may be).

As an unrelated side note, I strongly suggest reviewing your options before going with that particular dynamic. Hit points are IMO one of the greatest failures of the mainstream algorithmic game design, and unsuitable for the purpose in almost all cases the mechanic is used. Hit points encourage resource management instead of tactics, which results in some very dull, unrealistic and slow fight scenes.

Ironically for the discussion, I could see using such a point system for social matters. Makes much more sense, as dramatically there really is certain break points in social matters that can come to the fore through the resource management. "I have ten points of believability left, my position is still secure." and "Oh no, I dropped to zero, the last lie was one too much!" both work for me. Not that different from Sorcerer, which uses the hit point concept for moral adjucation.

Anyway, there have been a number of threads about this before. They should be easy to find through the search function.

[Ron Edwards]

Hello,

An older games to check out is Lace & Steel, which uses the very same and rather vicious resolution system for physical duelling and for verbal repartee.

A search for "social combat" in the archived Riddle of Steel forum here at the Forge should turn up some useful threads.

As Eero points out, more recent games consider all conflicts to be essentially similar, in that losing a fight and being wounded is handled, in game terms, just the same as losing an argument and having lowered status or esteem.

I recommend HeroQuest as the most useful and general reading/playing to learn more about the more recent approach.

Best,
Ron