Donjon Krawl

[Clinton R. Nixon]

So I got to thinking. All rolls are Ability + Skill. Why should Initiative be + two skills. Essentially for initiative Character Level is the substitute for Skill Level, so there should be no need to add an Initiative Skill to it. Rather, at the beginning of a flurry you should roll Your Ninja Speed roll against your current Initiative (just like Looting bodies) and carry over any Successes as a bonus to Initiative.

Kick-ass. I love this. I'm writing the game as we speak (which is one reason I've been trying to come to solid conclusions), and will absolutely make sure that no normal skill roll is anything but Ability + Skill.

(What to do with GM successes, though? I wouldn't want to use them as a penalty to initiative. Hrm.)

As far as Adroitness vs. Discernment goes - I don't think that's a bad idea. I think Discernment is more powerful than one would think, though. All the really cool player creation stuff runs off Discernment. When you're looking for trouble, or listening for noise, or whatever, that's when you get to create the most in the game - and they all run off Discernment.

However - creatures don't do this sort of thing, and so for them, Adroitness really is the best ability score. I think your change may make it into the rules - I'll try it out first. It also means fighting dumb creatures is easier than fighting smart creatures, which I like.

[Clinton R. Nixon]

Hey - I thought I'd throw this up here, since people asked. Here's the new bit on making attributes (what used to be called ability scores:)

Each attribute will start with a number between one and six in it. Zero indicates a total lack of ability, three is equivalent to average human ability in an ability, and six is superhuman in nature.

To create your attributes, you will need three six-sided dice (d6's), exactly like you'd find at the corner store or in a game of Monopoly. Roll these dice and look for the median roll. Place this number in your first attribute. Repeat for all six attributes in order.

Example: Jim is rolling the attributes for his character, Logran Thick-heart. His rolls, and the associated attributes look like this:
Roll: 3, 3, 4 = Virility of 3
Roll: 1, 5, 6 = Cerebrality of 5
Roll: 1, 1, 2 = Discernment of 1
Roll: 2, 3, 5 = Adroitness of 3
Roll: 3, 4, 6 = Wherewithal of 4
Roll: 5, 5, 6 = Sociality of 5

Also, I changed the terminology. What used to be an 'ability score' is now an 'attribute' and what used to be a skill is now an 'ability'.

Reason:

Attributes define all living things.
Abilities differ among living things.
Plus, I like it more.

[Mike Holmes]

Cool, I like the chargen. For the record, here are the odds of getting a particular score on a roll:

Code Select Expand

Score  %Chance
1       7.5%
2       18.5%
3       24%
4       24%
5       18.5%
6       7.5%

Every character will likely have one score that is either a six or a one.

Any "unplayable character" rules?

Mike

[lumpley]

Hey, just wanted to warn you that my game the C&C uses the same 3d6 take the middle one for stats, and you see a lot of 3's and 4's.  After a couple of games my players complained about it.

You might roll stats and then give everybody a +1 (or a +1 and a -1) to put where they want, just to shake it up a bit.

-Vincent

[Clinton R. Nixon]

There are the alternative rules (I call them 'dials' and the finished text is full of them) for either (a) rolling the 3d6 6 times and putting them where you want to, or (b) just distributing 18 dice however you like.

I really like Lumpley's suggestion, though - I'm using that. (Yet another person to add to the credits. :)

[DaR]

So I got to thinking. All rolls are Ability + Skill. Why should Initiative be + two skills. Essentially for initiative Character Level is the substitute for Skill Level, so there should be no need to add an Initiative Skill to it. Rather, at the beginning of a flurry you should roll Your Ninja Speed roll against your current Initiative (just like Looting bodies) and carry over any Successes as a bonus to Initiative.

Kick-ass. I love this. I'm writing the game as we speak (which is one reason I've been trying to come to solid conclusions), and will absolutely make sure that no normal skill roll is anything but Ability + Skill.

(What to do with GM successes, though? I wouldn't want to use them as a penalty to initiative. Hrm.)

Why not use the 1 success = 1 fact currency?  The GM can use those successes to change the flow of combat in interesting ways.  Things like torches setting the curtains on fire, a barrel full of something wet and slippery being knocked on the floor, or the roof of the tunnel groaning and starting to collapse.

-DaR

[Bankuei]

- magic ability score bonus - 4 dice (Example: +1 to Cerebrality is 4 dice)
- general magic bonus - 2 dice (Example: +2 to attack is 4 dice)
- specific magic bonus - 1 die (Example: +3 to attack undead is 3 dice)
- one time magic bonus - 1 die (Example: potion with Healing 5 is 5 dice)
- regular quality - 1 die (Example: a short sword (Dam 2) is 2 dice)
- magic curse - -1 die (Example: -2 to parry is -2 dice)

Hey Clinton, can this also be used for magical enchantments?  Such as if I want to cast Mighty Strength, would it be 4 spell dice removed from my pool, or 4 successes per die of bonus?  

Chris

[J B Bell]

Damn, when's the next edition of Donjon Krawl coming out?  I'm really enjoying this discussion and want something I can print out and run!

In the spirit of making a new edition more difficult to produce for poor Clinton, but not too hard, I present:

Clerics and Such Ilk in DJ

For a cleric-type, just make "divine" one of your Magic words.  If you're running a more wickedly inclined party, try "infernal."  If you want a world populated by all kinds of wacky gods, use the gods' name instead.  If the god has preferences about how their followers behave, the other words should be consonant with them.  (Or for a magic-user/cleric mix, just don't put in "bad words" along with a divine spell at the same time.)

Now you can add in all kinds of fun with temples, shrines, holy groves, etc., providing bonuses or penalties to divine entreaties.  Bonus dice for particularly inspired grovelling, self-mortification, and so forth on the part of the priest, paladin, druid, cultist, or whatever.  Stat out the, or a god, carefully as opposed to its tastes and apply bonuses or penalties to the PC's actions.  "Grognak hates elves, like, a lot, and is pleased with you for killing them this combat.  +1 die for your axe attack."  Define gods on the fly with the fact currency!  Aiyeeeee!

Man, it's purely amazing what a good currency does for a game.  I hope this idea doesn't do violence to it.  Feedback is welcome, especially from you lucky dogs playing this thing.

--TQuid

[Clinton R. Nixon]

TQuid -

Solid. I'd just been using the magic rules for clerics so far.

Here's my Donjon release date announcement as of now: you'll be able to buy it around the end of March / beginning of April. I know that's a little while to wait, but it's over twice as big as it is now, with tons of examples and clarifying rules and the like - plus incredible art by James V. West.

If if you want to play it before then, man - Vancouver and Seattle aren't that far apart. We can figure something out.