[Sorcerer] Pro-Social Demons?

[James_Nostack]

Is it possible to have demons with a "socially helpful" Desire or Needs?  I'm reading through the Sorcerer core rules for the first time, and they seem to take a "Demons are evil" attitude as the default.  If I'm understanding the rules correctly, couldn't you also have a Demon who is an unrelenting goody-two-shoes?

"God damn it, Nicodemus!  I said not now!  This is time for nachos.  We'll cure cancer tomorrow night, I promise."

Aside from defining Humanity as something like, "Self-interest," would any other changes have to be made?  It seems like Sorcerer is mainly about a person getting snared in a crazy situation, and then relying on highly dysfunctional relationships to cope... which, in theory at least, this would preserve.  Am I missing anything?

(Maybe this question gets asked all the time, or is answered in some other supplement, but I'm still reading through the rules.)

[pete_darby]

Strikes me that this would be kind of fun to play, especially wrt this thread about the happiest little demons in existence.

But I get the feeling this is in Sorcerer's Soul, or possibly Sex & Sorcerer (looks at shopping list, looks at debts...). Either way, as long as it's put in conflict somehow (Demon need conflicts with sorcerer goals at some fundamental level...) it's all good to me.

One thing I'd bear in mind is that the Acts of Sorcerery are fundamentally hubris filled. Got a problem? I can fix it by simply breaking the laws of the universe. No matter the need of the Demon, it is humanity defying by it's nature. Even if it wants or needs to help people, it's fundamentally anti-humanity.

Now, about definitions of Humanity that would conflict with "boy scout demons"... hwo about self reliance, or autonomy, or freedom of thought? The bigger demons end up like the Master Control Program (or whatever it was called) in I Robot, or Colossus in the eponymous movie. They just want to look after humanity, all they ask is total obedience.

Now tell me it's not a dysfunctional relationship. Demons end up being metaphors for Drugs, or A Secure Job, or Da Man, anything we accept to make our lives easier, all they ask for is a little bit of our soul and look! Our children are fed, our streets are safe, we are cared for from cradle to grave... I humbly submit the WH Auden Sorcerer campaign

[Ron Edwards]

Hiya,

"Demons are evil" is a projection on your part, not a feature of the text. Yes, it's a given that demonic stuff threatens one's Humanity, and yes, it's a given that Humanity has to be something we, the real people involved in play, value. But aside from those constraints, the sky's the limit.

So yes, your proposal for the, uh, dangerously nice demon is just fine. The game doesn't need any tweaking or any alteration. In fact, a lot of this sort of issue is dealt with in The Sorcerer's Soul.

Best,
Ron

[Bankuei]

Hi,

I'd say Pokemon, or, better yet, Digimon cartoons are prime examples of nice demons who, simply by virtue of their existance unintentionally cause all kinds of humanity checks for the kids who work with them...

Chris