Stat sets [Cian]

[anthony kilburn]

I personally like the WW system (old & new), where traits are grouped into three categories of three each.  This is also done with the Tri-Stat system in Body, Mind, Soul (or their approximations).

As for my own systems for various games I've worked through, I've arrived at a fairly universal set of stats, amongst which a set number of points (say, 27) would be divided:

PHYSICAL
Strength: power and might (damage)
Dexterity: agility and coordination (dodge, weapon aim)
Vigor: stamina and fortitude ("hit points")

MENTAL
Intelligence: learning ability (affects cost of skills)
Perception: sensory awareness (tracking)

SPIRITUAL
Acuity: wit and intuition (affects initiative and magic scores)
Charisma: personality and charm (social trait, affects animal training)
Resolve: willpower and self-control (magic defense, allows for WW-esque "willpower point expenditures")

Players must rank their characters' BODY, MIND, and SOUL, the top-rated group receiving the most points to divide, and each rank below that getting progressively less (let's say, top rank gets 12, second gets 9, last gets 6).  I think this helps to create more realistic characters, as well as a more well-rounded and balanced character.  For example: Bob can't just put all 27 points in his Strength, Dexterity, and Vigor; instead, he is only allotted 12 for his Barbarian, but he must also place some in his Mental and Spiritual ranks as well.

But as you can see, my Mental traits are lacking in one.... and I'm debating whether a few Spiritual traits aren't actually Mental.... At any rate, what are your trait/trait creation systems?  What direction might I take mine in?

[Troy_Costisick]

Heya :)

Before you get started on creating things like stats, I'm gonna ask you two fairly standard Forgeish type questions:

1. What is your game about?

2. What do the characters do?

Okay, there are just a couple more things I'd like to just ask about :)

When you say:

I think this helps to create more realistic characters

Why are "realistic" characters important to you?  Is your game focussing on realism?  If so, what are you defining as "realistic" for your game?

And when you write:

as well as a more well-rounded and balanced character

What kind of balance are you talking about?  Do you mean capable of doing many things well?  Do you mean character effectiveness is roughly equal from character to character?  Or do you mean that no one stat will be more important than any other stat? Or groups of stats?

The following threads may be helpful (or not) when determining what balance means to you:

http://www.indie-rpgs.com/viewtopic.php?t=12324&highlight=
http://www.indie-rpgs.com/viewtopic.php?t=14693&highlight=

Peace,

-Troy

[Eero Tuovinen]

But as you can see, my Mental traits are lacking in one.... and I'm debating whether a few Spiritual traits aren't actually Mental.... At any rate, what are your trait/trait creation systems?  What direction might I take mine in?

Why, I've lately mostly worked with play-defined traits. They're really simple and flexible, but perhaps a bit bland. The thing becomes interesting when a trait defined for one character has repercussions for the whole campaign, which is something I'll have to make a game about at some point...

But seriously, you can't be asking how we group traits. Some games do not have traits, some have many, some have few, and it all depends on the goals of the design. Before having traits you should know what they are for. So answer Troy's questions, perhaps that will tell us about the role of traits in your game. Chances are that you don't need that many, and they do not need to be grouped into three triads.

Anyway. The main problem in both Tri-stat and WW games, as concerns these trait triads, is that by choosing to use them the designer promises to entitle each triad with equal protagonizing power in the game. This can get really clumsy in practice, when the triads do not actually conform with what the game is about. Tristat games frequently glitch because they don't actually have enough use for the Spirit attribute. So you should really ensure first that your game actually is about something "spiritual", and that something translates into character traits. Note that this is not true for a great majority of genres.

That being said, the traiditional way to construct these triads is to look for three principles within the concept:
Power - the principle of change
Finesse - the principle of control
Form - the passive principle
For physical sphere these are of course strength, agility and constitution, while for mental things these are intelligence, wit and willpower. The simplest way to structure a "spiritual" sphere is to look for three words that embody those principles and sound vaguely spiritual. Like this:
Magic - the aggressive spiritual power
Charisma - the manipulative spirit power
Soul - the potential and reserve of spiritual power

[Ben Lehman]

Welcome to the Forge!

I am in total agreement with Troy, above.  Before you answer any questions, I want to know why your game is awesome.

yrs--
--Ben

P.S.  To answer your question, my system has three numbers, called Ice, Light and Zeal/Weariness (the name of the last number changes during play.)  Ice represents your power that comes from the external world, Light represents your power that comes from yourself, and Zeal / Weariness represents your will to keep fighting.

This is because I want stories from this game to be tragedies, and all tragedies that are worth a damn* have a protagonist that is conflicted between the self and the external world, and becomes increasingly drained by this.

Point: Know what you want out of the game, then get your numbers to give you that.

* personal opinion.  results may vary.

[anthony kilburn]

I've arrived at a fairly universal set of stats

Fairly universal in that they could be used in a variety of adventure games.  That is, your standard, run of the mill adventure games like D&D and any other online fantasy game.

1. What is your game about?

The simple answer is "it's an adventure game".  When I say universal, I mean that it could be used in my game, Cian, which is a game about striving to fullfill your destiny, as well as any science fantasy, modern, or other type of adventure game.

2. What do the characters do?

Well, they physically interact in the world with combat, socially interact with non-player characters, they strive to improve their skills, they use magic, they do damage and heal wounds, and a host of other typical fantasy adventure things.  I realize these things could be handled in a HOST of ways, but on a fairly straight-forward scale, excluding those inventive trait systems like the element names and whatnot, this is what i imagine would be most effective in describing a capabale character who in able, through the mechanic, to interact with the world in the greatest amount of "adventure" ways without weighing the system down with 28 different traits.

Why are "realistic" characters important to you? Is your game focussing on realism? If so, what are you defining as "realistic" for your game?

Realism allows for the possibility of human-like failure, which in turn creates suspense and drama.  Tales of undefeatable gods may be intriguing to some, but for the most part, without the inclusion of humans within their battles, god-wars would be pointless, as gods can't die.  Death is an important aspect of your standard adventure game.  For me, realistic stats say that the traits and their corresponding scores describe an ideal interaction between character and game world which is similar to reality in that: 1) The important things to an adventure tale are covered by all the stats, and 2) the way these stats interact with the game world reflects what I would imagine these stats represented in a REAL environment (like if I was rated in the stats).

To answer before you ask, I don't believe in "magic", but I do truly believe in psionic power (telepathy, ESP, telekenesis).  And I basically see magic as the "poor man's" interpretation of what mental powers exist in reality.  If you put a psychic back in medieval times, they'd consider him a wizard with his crazy magicks.

What kind of balance are you talking about? Do you mean capable of doing many things well? Do you mean character effectiveness is roughly equal from character to character? Or do you mean that no one stat will be more important than any other stat? Or groups of stats?

Balance would mean that most parts of his relevant interaction with the game world are covered.  Balance would mean that he could fight, talk to other characters, perform physical tests, think about problems, perform "magic" spells.... any number of things that are usually and universally covered in the "adventure" genre.

I mean to say that the trio of groups would be the main properties of the character and that, yes, no one group would hold sway over another, in that a fighter would favor the physical, the thinker would favor the mental, and the wizard would favor the spiritual.  And in the end, none would be any more powerful than the other.

So you should really ensure first that your game actually is about something "spiritual", and that something translates into character traits.

By "spiritual", I simply mean the SOUL aspect of the trinity.  Those things which can be not described as BODY nor MIND.  This encompasses personality, in my mind, determination, and use of world altering "magic" powers.

[Troy_Costisick]

Heya,

The simple answer is "it's an adventure game". When I say universal, I mean that it could be used in my game, Cian, which is a game about striving to fullfill your destiny, as well as any science fantasy, modern, or other type of adventure game.

So, the focus of our game is to take the concept of a literary "adventure" and use the tropes, motifs, and conventions of that concept to create campaigns for the PCs.  Cool :)  Also, it sounds like destiny is important to your game.  Is there a destiny mechanic?  Is it decided at creation or discovered later on?

Well, they physically interact in the world with combat, socially interact with non-player characters, they strive to improve their skills, they use magic, they do damage and heal wounds, and a host of other typical fantasy adventure things.

So the point of the character is to advance that character, yes?  How does a character advance?  Does he simply get more proficient at the skills he has?  Does he gain more skills as he advances?  More powers?  More narrative power for the player?  And why do they want to improve their skills?  What is thier motivation?

Realism allows for the possibility of human-like failure, which in turn creates suspense and drama. Tales of undefeatable gods may be intriguing to some, but for the most part, without the inclusion of humans within their battles, god-wars would be pointless, as gods can't die. Death is an important aspect of your standard adventure game.

So you are also focussing on human flaws.  Is there a flaw mechanic? Does that mean that character's must take flaws at their creation?  Or do they develop them over time?  What is the effect of Human-like failures in your game?

For me, realistic stats say that the traits and their corresponding scores describe an ideal interaction between character and game world which is similar to reality in that: 1) The important things to an adventure tale are covered by all the stats, and

Does this mean the character's stats are used as currency to tell the story?

I mean to say that the trio of groups would be the main properties of the character and that, yes, no one group would hold sway over another, in that a fighter would favor the physical, the thinker would favor the mental, and the wizard would favor the spiritual. And in the end, none would be any more powerful than the other.

How are you defining power?

I also want to talk about this for a minute:

Fairly universal in that they could be used in a variety of adventure games. That is, your standard, run of the mill adventure games like D&D and any other online fantasy game.

....is a game about striving to fullfill your destiny, as well as any science fantasy, modern, or other type of adventure game.

-Games like GURPS, D20, FUDGE, and a whole host of games (many of which have authors that frequent these boards) can host adventures in any genre.  So, besides some sort of resolution mechanic, what makes your game different?  Why should someone drop a game they've known and loved for years in favor of playing yours?  In otherwords, what is going to be the "Wow!  I've never seen that before!" part of your game?

Peace,

-Troy

[Doug Ruff]

Hi killacozzy!

From your last post, I'm getting a distinct "generic fantasy" feel. This isn't automatically a bad thing, but it does make it hard to give you any advice.

Reason is, there are already lots of generic fantasy games out there, some of which don't suck. And for every one that has seen the light of day, there are several dozen which only exist as a collection of notes in a ring binder. My own gaming group plays one of these, and it's fun.)

This makes it quite hard for you, as an aspiring game designer and publisher, to make an impact in an already overcrowded market.

(And yes, by posting to this forum, you are now an aspiring publisher! Welcome to the team.)

Now, that doesn't mean that you shouldn't try, hell no. But even 'generic' systems play and feel very differently, and one of the keys to successful game design is to realise what sort of an experience you want to deliver and make sure that the rules support that experience.

(in other words, what Ben said.)

For example, the Pool and FATE are both generic systems (they are also both free, and both have forums on this very site.) But they don't play the same, and one of them has about 50 times as many pages as the other.

So, let's try another tack:

(1) Is there anything about your game which isn't "generic"? For example, is there a fixed setting with it's own special story, or is there something that the players can do in this game that they can't do in most other systems?

(2) Is there a particular recurrent theme that you want players to be able to explore with your rules? For example, I checked your other posts and noticed a couple of ideas about destiny (shaping it, and facing it) that were interesting.

Regards,

Doug

PS Apologies if this is a bit of a "rough ride" for you; you're getting a lot of heat for your first ten posts! Believe me when I say that everyone who is critiquing your approach is doing so to encourage you to write a great game, and not to put you off.

[Michael S. Miller]

Hi. From your posts in the other thread, I  can tell you've got passionate ideas of what a fantastical world should look like. Personally, I think it's a shame to let passion go to waste. I hope you'll be able to harness your passion and let it drive you to designing a truly GREAT RPG. Please take the comments below in that vein.

I've arrived at a fairly universal set of stats

Fairly universal in that they could be used in a variety of adventure games.  That is, your standard, run of the mill adventure games like D&D and any other online fantasy game.

Okay, if your game can do what D&D can do, why do I want it? I've already got D&D. I've got dozens of other games that do the same thing. Why should I spend the time to learn about your great setting if I'm only going to end up kicking down dungeon doors and hacking through horrific monsters? Be different!

In your post, I notice you use "run of the mill" "typical" "as well as ... other type of adventure game" and similar phrases a lot. It seems to me that you're unimpressed by the game you  haven't even written yet. If you're not impressed with it, why should I be? Be enthusiastic!

Now, the "fulfill your destiny" bit, that's got some promise. Just focus on that. Really. JUST THAT. How do the characters fulfill their destinies? What kind of destinies do they have? What does the fulfillment of those destinies mean for their societies? Throw out your assumptions of what a "typical adventure game" has to do. Every one of those assumptions has been done. Start with one thing and do it really well!

[/b]

[anthony kilburn]

In your post, I notice you use "run of the mill" "typical" "as well as ... other type of adventure game" and similar phrases a lot. It seems to me that you're unimpressed by the game you haven't even written yet. If you're not impressed with it, why should I be? Be enthusiastic!

I say "typical" and "generic" like I hate my game, yes.  LOL.

All I'm trying to get across is the idea of a physical adventure, as opposed to a game of psychological drama like a Cthulu or Vampire, which focuses inward.  And when I say "generic", I'm trying to point more to the stats than the game world.

I'm actually trying to avoid going into the whole of my game so that this stuff can be valuable to someone besides myself.  After all, I find it hard to post about stuff I don't find interesting, so I imagine others could find my personal project as uninteresting and non-helpful.

I'm from that school of thought that a game world is what's important.... I would want to play Star Wars d20 if I had the time, but I'd never want to play D&D.  It's all about that originality for me.  My setting has unique races, cultures, and languages which have been sculpted and mapped out (not completely, but the major stuff is done).  This is what I feel makes it unique.  I guess at this point I just have to "transcend" that, and make the entire game as unique.  I just don't want it to be too game specific, as I intend to write-up a few more projects and a common system between them would be easy for me and any players.

(2) Is there a particular recurrent theme that you want players to be able to explore with your rules? For example, I checked your other posts and noticed a couple of ideas about destiny (shaping it, and facing it) that were interesting.

As of late, I've been toying with a Destiny trait as a means to both measure experience "levels" and give a hero motivation.  I came up with Pride as a counter-Destiny trait, perhaps accrued through embracing that divine "Destiny" a little too much, thinking themselves an unstoppable force in an egomaniacal way.  This way, a king may think his great Destiny is to rule the world, but because of his arrogance, his acquired Pride points hinder him from realizing his Destiny.  I dunno.  It's rough at this point.  And I imagine it's been done before anyway!  LOL.

Why should I spend the time to learn about your great setting if I'm only going to end up kicking down dungeon doors and hacking through horrific monsters?

Well, there are no monsters.... maybe wild animals and some character-specific enemies.  Dungeons might end up existing, but not in a "let's go find treasure" way.  No dragons, no orcs carrying treasure because "it looks pretty and is shiny".  LOL.  This is a game about individual characters and societies.... each one has its own ends they're trying to realize.  It's a more realistic interpretation of ancient times.... (with a twist... ya know, some alien-like races).  No good, no evil....  Only what's in the mind's eye....

But anyway.

[Eero Tuovinen]

From this discussion of design motivation I'm getting a wibe... why not use Tri-stat or FUDGE or Shadows of Yesterday, to name a few, as your system? If the priority is in the setting and you don't even believe in the system mattering, then isn't system design a waste of time for you?

There are a lot of systems with ready-made answers for all of your questions, systems designed with exacting attention to system design. If your only motivation for system design is to make one because that's how they do games, won't you end up with an uninspired, redundant system? How would it be possible to design a good system without believing in it?

The product will be more honest and sharp if you'll just sell it as what it is - a setting. A Tri-stat logo will certainly help in selling it, too. Or d20. Lots of people go this route, and generally they fare better than if they churned out an useless copy of whatever their favourite system is.

--

That being said, you could make your own system. But in that case I really, really recommend that you ditch the general approach and everything you know about how to design a WW game. It's a waste of time. If you want a game like that, any system of the above will do it. I recommend d20, it's solid and sells better than most.

Instead, proper design will most likely start by really focusing on the kind of play you want to have. From your writing I'm thinking that the setting should be the focus - you should have rules that bring out and focus on the setting in various ways. There are ways to build this kind of rules, but they are NOTHING like you seem to be planning. For an inkling on how to do setting focused system, read the following:
- Dogs in the Vineyard forces players to interpret and reinterpret the setting. Also a masterful genre setting in itself.
- Heroquest has the strongest setting of them all, and it informs play constantly. How, you'll see by playing it.
- Nine Worlds again forces players to judge the setting. And the setting is focused really, really tightly, when it could span everything and the kitchen sink.

The point is that a WW style character development system is a disaster for setting focus, because it rewards player solipsism. By giving characters a large amount of traits you're effectively saying that these are what matters. Your strength matters, your agility matters, your intelligence matters, your soulpower matters... that's all away from the things you really want to do. Now, for some games this is the correct route: I've long thought that the WW games are the most functional when the GM embraces his role as the de facto storyteller, talking to walls, while the players prepare their characters for the next battle. The rules reward players when they play a character-centered game.

The thing is, that style of play is the most typical kind you see in games with strong setting. This is because strong setting is generally interpreted as "only GM has read the setting, only GM will expound on the setting". So the setting actualizes as GM monologue in actual play, and a main feature of play is setting ownership, which always rests squarely on the GM. This is fine if the system has something else for the other players to do, which is the case with WW games and D20. The same thing fails disastrously in freeform games, where the other players might get bored with the GM having control of all the colorful stuff.

Anyway, those remarks hold only if you want a setting focused system. Might be jumping the gun at this point. Why don't you tell us more about the kind of play experience you seek to deliver by the game? That usually helps a great deal...

[Doug Ruff]

I'm actually trying to avoid going into the whole of my game so that this stuff can be valuable to someone besides myself.  After all, I find it hard to post about stuff I don't find interesting, so I imagine others could find my personal project as uninteresting and non-helpful.

The others can speak for themselves, but I think the personal vision is far more interesting than the actual bricks used to build it, as it were. I also think you'll get far more feedback if you talk about this sort of thing.

And I imagine it's been done before anyway!  LOL.

I'm sure it has, but I bet it hasn't been done your way yet.

Regards,

Doug

[FzGhouL]

One Stat you should have should be unrealistic. Something you thought of on your own, making your game much different than anyone elses. Make this unique attribute hook into the game world so tightly that you can't rip them apart.

Maybe your last mental attribute will be based on the Psychic powers you describe as real?

As for my game, I have somewhere around 25 Stats per Character. Only 6 of those are Flexible, as in "traits."

[anthony kilburn]

Analogy: The setting in my world would function in the same way the setting for Star Wars does.  When fans watch Star Wars, they wish they could become Jedi Knights and learn the Force, smuggle cargo in the Millennium Falcon, and seek out kills as a deadly bounty hunter.  It's the inspiration for adventure.  And although the archetypes in the movies are trite as most overused cliché, they're trite with pizazz.  There's a new look, feel.  It's something familiar, yet odd and bizzare.... human, but just slightly alien.  I mean, it's the wild, wild west—in space!

Okay, that tells you my mindset but nothing of the game or world.

First, though, the reason I want a new system is because I crave logic and uniformity.  This is my realism.  If you add 1d20 to your ability+skill against a DC to determine success of a skill, why are there different systems for magic?  Memorizing spells???  d20, first off, makes NO SENSE to me.  Classes?  What happened to character freedom?  And why can't a wizard be proficient with armor?  Wait, how can you be proficient with ARMOR???  Yes, there are probably both logical and design issues behind these rules.  Maybe I'm stupid for disliking these rules.  But if I don't understand them initially, then they just don't sit well in general.

I like the WW stuff because the system is uniform, using one dice mechanic all the time, and because logically, the traits used make sense to me.  I'm not married to the "trinity of traits" idea, and in fact, my original model just had them grouped as Physical: STR/DEX/VIG/PER and Mental: INT/CHA/ACU/RES (all abbreviations are just the first three letters of the traits, if it wasn't already painfully obvious).

The traditional physical traits of Strength, Dexterity, and Vigor/Stamina/Constitution are quite universal, and I like using them for adventure games.  I think at least some mental traits are necessary, since characters may be more able than their players (what if a quiet introvert was incapable of role-playing a suave politician?  what about a supergenius played by an idiot?).  I like the Wisdom/Acuity/Wit as a magic trait, and I think there should be some kind of Resolve/Willpower trait to act as that drive a hero has in him or her.


Okay, now as far as my game goes, I want the players to create characters that have their own motivations and drives, based on conflicts and beliefs presented in the setting.  These characters, or heroes, will then be given a "Destiny", or life goal of significance.  These are lofty goals that may be achieved or failed, but serve as the hero's central focus.  Of course, these heroes have other objectives, but the Destiny speaks of legendary feats.

Anyway, the heroes then interact in this world much as any protagonist would in his or her environment.  These interactions may be mostly physical (fighting battles with enemy kingdoms, hunting deadly animals, searching for artifacts).  Some may be mental (learning magic rituals) or social (bartering for valuable goods, seducing the king's daughter).  Basically, these heroes are actors in that big, epic tale about.... whatever the GM wants (of course, the creation of stories and the flavor of the setting will be discussed in the book).  The players have their heroes act in-character, meaning that even if something seems stupid and arrogant for someone to do (don't open that door!), the hero is, well, a hero.  And heroes have their own minds.

Okay, okay.  I know.  Sounds like a simplistic interpretation of adventure gaming.

The Destiny mechanic I've come up with thus far treats the Destiny trait (yes, that "life goal") as a resource to be acquired, like experience points.  They earn a player currency that can be used to improve the hero's skill at interacting with his or her world.  How does a player earn his or her hero Destiny????  I'm still working on that.  In concept, a destiny point is earned for taking action that advances the Destiny definition.  For example: If Anakin Skywalker possessed the Destiny "bring balance to the Force", he would've gained a destiny point for killing the Emperor.

Yes, it's loose now.  I have to figure out how to judge "action towards destiny".  Also, I want to work into that mechanic the concept of Pride being a barrier to Destiny.... perhaps when a hero acts arrogantly, he or she is blocked from attaining more destiny points.  For example: "It's my destiny to bring balance to the Force, so I think I'll kill all the Jedi!"  Sorry, Anakin, now you have to wait over 20 years before you can actually balance the Force due to all that arrogant Pride.  Karma sucks.  Better make good with the Force....

So yeah, what's the purpose of the destiny points?  Well, I figure it'll be story-driven; once you attain a certain amount of destiny points, the meeting with that Destiny your hero has defined finally arrives.  For example: If Anakin saves his son by killing the Emperor, he will be atoning for past transgressions, allowing for his Pride to be removed and his destiny points to be accrued, his Destiny will come: he can finally balance the Force by sacrificing himself.

Oh yeah, and once a hero meets his or her Destiny, the hero becomes transcends to legend.  Time to make a new hero.  This represents those fateful sacrifices (that Darth/Anakin example above) and retirements ("what's the point in adventuring once you'd attained the pinnacle of life?").

I debate whether or not another Destiny might be chosen after the first is attained.  I guess even if I said no in the rules, people who played the game might ignore it anyway!  LOL.

This all make sense?  Didn't think so.  ;-)

[Eero Tuovinen]

Killacozzy: the more I read the more I'm convinced that it proves a fool's journey for you to design a system at this time. No hostility in this, but numerous points in your writing, starting with your goals and ending with your former experience, indicate that you won't be designing a system with any great value over other commonly available systems. What we have hatching here seems to be a fantasy heartbreaker (about which you can read more in the articles section).

If D20 feels inelegant to you, there are other possibilities. FUDGE is pretty logical, for instance. And nothing says that you have to have a rules system. Players are quite capable of adapting their favourite systems for your game world, if you explicitly instruct them to. Or you could give an extremely simple protosystem, which would suffice for play style where the GM actually controls the plot. For example, rate all traits/abilities/whatever forces on a scale from 1 to 10 without creating a definite list of what they should be, and instruct the GM to roll and add for any conflicts. No hassle,and extremely easy to convert to other systems.

--

However, if you're wedded to the idea of making your own system... go and read Heroquest, and learn from it. It's currently clearly the best system for generic fantasy adventure, head and shoulders above any other system. Read that, and learn from it. After that, go and read Shadows of Yesterday. It's another iteration of similar ideas, and again much better than Exalted. Play both games. Actually, use your own world and play both games in it.

Next, don't hurry about the system design. Ideally you will learn numerous things about what roleplaying is, and they will change your design. Remember that good design may take time. We're talking years here. In my opinion, you're not ready yet to design knowledgeably. Conseited to say, but that's how I call it.

--

If you don't have the patience to learn, and don't want to use another's system, I suggest taking the best system you know (Storyteller?) and following it closely. Actually, start by using exactly that system. Only make the changes you need to use it with your own game world. Then playtest it. Write down any things that bother you. Change those. Play more. Change more. This way you will slowly deviate from the original system. When you're ready, change the die-mechanic (if you didn't already) to something else, so that your system will look different to the untrained eye.

In this way you get a system that's just as good or bad as the original system you used, assuming that the original system fits at all with your design goals. This is also the method that's used in 80% of rpg design generally, so you're not alone. What's best, you don't really need to know anything about rpg design this way.

Note that this latter method is what you seem to already be doing. You have the Storyteller system, which you're in process of fiddling with, changing some attributes and such. I suggest that you shouldn't get stuck in choosing traits, but rather should get to playing your world with the system as soon as possible. Many things will become evident through play, and you can make necessary changes then.

[Troy_Costisick]

Heya,

I won't be as dour as my good friend, Euro. :)  But I really do recomend that you grab some cheap and/or free RPGs out there that are not main-stream games and see what they have to offer.  Here's a link to many free RPGs.  Some good, some not so, all capable of teaching you something:  http://www.indie-rpgs.com/resources/index.php?category=6

I'd like to focus on this:

The Destiny mechanic I've come up with thus far treats the Destiny trait (yes, that "life goal") as a resource to be acquired, like experience points. They earn a player currency that can be used to improve the hero's skill at interacting with his or her world. How does a player earn his or her hero Destiny???? I'm still working on that. In concept, a destiny point is earned for taking action that advances the Destiny definition. For example: If Anakin Skywalker possessed the Destiny "bring balance to the Force", he would've gained a destiny point for killing the Emperor.

-This is good.  This is what your game should be all about.  Find a way to tie Destiny into every facet of your character and your game world.  From the stats, to the skills, to the saves, to even your character's physical appearance should be affected by his Destiny.  And rather than an accumulation of points, why not a sliding scale that can vacillate back and forth depending on player action?  I think this is where your design focus needs to be right now.

Peace,

-Troy