what I would like to see

[Jason L Blair]

Trust me, Jared knows it's all three.

OK....raise your hands if "Eww".

Thank you for buffing my mind's eyeball with THAT particular image.

Yeesh.

GMS

In case you missed it, that was Gareth volunteering to hold the camera.

[Gordon C. Landis]

Trust me, Jared knows it's all three.

OK....raise your hands if "Eww".

Thank you for buffing my mind's eyeball with THAT particular image.

Yeesh.

In case you missed it, that was Gareth volunteering to hold the camera.

It's obviously been too long since someone reminded Jason he is a sick, sick man.

Jason, you are a sick, sick man.

Not that there's anything *wrong* with love between two Game Designers - I mean, I think it's *good* that in today's society such a love need not hide itself in closets and such.

Really.  I do.

But my arm is in the air, and I do say "Eww".

Gordon
(Will I buy the new edition of Underworld?  Magic 8-Ball says: "The odds are in your favor")

[Jürgen Mayer]

Hard to do, since a traditional map doesn't allow for three dimensions, and some of the locations are below others.  I'm trying to figure out a way to represent this without having to include a dozen stacked maps.   What I'm currently thinking is taking the subway map of NYC, and overlaying it with a grid, and just giving grid locations and depth in the location descriptions.  Not sure.

After reading about all the different opinions and thinking about, I have to admit that having a "hard facts"-map would take some of the fantasy feeling away. So a double sided map with some detail on specific landmarks would actually work best, no "this domain is exaclty here". Just give the conductor a better toolkit and let his imagination do the rest.

For Jared's system, just make a table like this:

Code:

            ! Crooklyn   ! Wonderland ! Old Bones  ! Vandeville !
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Crooklyn    !            !     3      !     6      !     4      !
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Wonderland  !     3      !            !     5      !     8      !
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Old Bones   !     6      !     5      !            !     4      !
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Vandeville  !     4      !     8      !     4      !            !
-----------------------------------------------------------------

Jürgen Mayer

[Adam]

Fuck you, Jared, that's awesome.

I agree. About the awesome, not about the fucking... well, maybe about that, too.

[Ben Morgan]

Okay, I'm not gonna go *anywhere* near one side or the other of the whole "Eww" issue. It's just not my business. :)

A word on maps: It's not as important for me, as I live here in NYC, so I can get as many free subway maps as I want. However, including a *second* copy of the subway map, with all of the game-related details removed (ie: just the subway lines), would be nifty. Then this map could be photocopied and used by Conductors in individual games, and all manner of notes could be scribbled on it.

Just a thought. :)

[Adam]

*digs around in nearly forgotten databases, glad that he's a packrat*

http://www.mta.nyc.ny.us/nyct/maps/submap.htm for a colour version of the same map.

[Valamir]

Excellent resource Adam.  And a damn well put together site to boot.

[Mike Holmes]

How about more like a subway timetable, Jared? Kinda like what MM has above, but with the stops on the way?

The interesting thing about something like that would be that it would drag the characters through important locales on the way to other places. Allow them to shorten the trip and/or avoid these locales with Navigation rolls. But in general, they'd need to follow certain paths to get from place to place. This is cool becuse it is so fairy-tale, and gives you an idea of the "terrain" between two points. Reminds me of the paths in the game Magic Realm. Sure you can go off the beaten path, but that's when people get lost...

Just seems like a better representation of things than free movement in 3D. After all, this is underground.

Mike

[Tim Gray]

What I did was to print off a map from some subway site, then go through the book and mark on rough circles where the locations are. And really, that's all you need: a subway map on a reasonable scale, with locations roughly circled in felt-tip marker (or computer facsimile). If you wanted you could show depth with different colours or line styles (or just keep the confusing overlapping). Apply a bit of staining and crinkling and it's something you bought from a Tagger.

The layers with vertical connections version is good for explanation, but it's too modern, high-tech and precise. After all, locations routinely move around a bit to get comfortable, so exact guidelines have as much chance of getting you to the wrong spot as the right one.

For similar reasons a "timetable" of routes between stations would need to build in flexibility rather than being prescriptive about *the* route.

I support the idea behind Jared's travelling idea: think about the main activities characters will be doing and write the rules and support material accordingly. Eg travelling tunnels, visiting domains...

[Jürgen Mayer]

A line on the charsheet for negative traits. The majority of players I know use this option.

Additionally: IIRC, the old charsheet's wounding table was incomplete. There was only one space to check for each wound level, but there should have be three spaces for each one.

Jürgen Mayer

[Tim Gray]

Plus temporary wound levels (not quite sure whether that's another 3 spaces for each one).

[jordvortexan]

A few things I'd like:

An INDEX. Please. Every game should have an index. Please.

A section on creating characters with out Guilds where they arent penalized.

I think that the choice and descriptions of Breeds is nice and they are quite open but the choices for Guilds are quite limiting. It seems to me that the UW would be loaded with folks who don't fit into such neat occupational catagories.

When I ran the game the only Guilds taken were Bravo and Tagger. The other characters were great concepts that were hampered by the system. Also the Guild requirements limits players from playing Newbies who just got downbelow.

[Jürgen Mayer]

An INDEX. Please. Every game should have an index. Please.

A section on creating characters with out Guilds where they arent penalized.

Index - you should definitely include one.

Guildless Characers - I also encountered this problem once. Give us a few guidelines for characters who don't fit into a Guild. As it is now they are unplayably penalized.

Jürgen Mayer

[jordvortexan]

There's also the fact that the Feral don't really fit into any Guilds, they're one of my favorite Breeds but the Guild requirement makes them too handicapped.

[Jürgen Mayer]

There's also the fact that the Feral don't really fit into any Guilds, they're one of my favorite Breeds but the Guild requirement makes them too handicapped.

Really? Don't have a problem with that. I had only one feral in my groups until now, and that was a bravo tiger assassin. But why aren't other guilds possible? A monkey tagger. A horse navigator. A rat nomad (hey, an unkillable rat!). A mole sapper.

Jürgen Mayer