what I would like to see

[Tim Gray]

In one corner of Wonderland there is a burrow. In the burrow lives the White Rabbit. Visiting unannounced is a poor idea, due to the various personal security and defence systems he has installed beneath the turf and in the tree trunks. It wasn't his idea to come here - some Homeless who liberated an animal research lab thought Wonderland ought to have a White Rabbit and brought him down - but he's got a nice spot and values his privacy. Under the gruff exterior there may be one or two soft spots, but don't put money on it. Caring little for the opinions or company of other Ferals, he has no qualms about using his manipulator arm rig.



BTW, the unkillable rat is brilliant.

[Jared A. Sorensen]

Ferals. I LOVE the Ferals...but (and this is not some weird furry thing), it would be cool if the Radiance mucked with them a bit.

Radiance 0: Normal surface-world beasties
Radiance 1: standard UW beasties
Radiance 2: vaguely anthropamorphic beasties (ie: thumbs, bipedal)
Radiance 3+: weird "manimal" looking men and women (see http://www.daniellee.com for Daniel Lee's manimal photos)

This would rock the house.

THAT would be cool. Also, yes...the Undead (ie: ghosts) breed.  I was also gonna say Fey as well but really, they're just Legendaries.

[GMSkarka]

I thought about starting a new thread about this, but the subject of this thread covered it nicely, so I'll just add to it:

What would you folks like to see, in terms of progress reports/updates/sneak peaks of UW2?   It's going to be 7 months or so before the game is released, and I know that people are going to want to see things to keep their interest level up.

A new "game design" column is not an option, because there are too many of the damn things nowadays, and updating to a second edition doesn't involve a lot of design anyway.

I would still like to do *something*, though.  Any ideas?

GMS

[Valamir]

How about a weekly/monthly/whatever "sneakpeak".

Maybe start off by making a list of all of the differences from trivial to signifigant (not including correcting typos of course) between the two, and then dedicating a thread to each.

The Graffiti art cover type of thread addresses the "Whats new with the cover" question.

The map thread was similiar, but could be updated when you decide how your going to go.

Maybe interior art would be another thread.  Which 1e pics got scratched, what artists are doing the new art, give some links to sites they have so we can check em out.

d20 would be another one...give a sample UW character class template or two (like Pinnacle did with their D20 version), and discuss how you translate head counts to d20 rolls.

Some key items from the supplement that never came out that is now going to be included in the core book.

I wouldn't expect a full blown "column" on each, but I think this would be a good place to start.

[Tim Gray]

Not just here - using the website is at least as important. The 'Godlike' folks did fairly well on that score. Make sure it always looks like something's happening, and that it caters for new interest as well as old timers like us. For instance, you may want to put up brief summaries of the Breeds and Guilds.

[soundwave]

What do I personally want to see in UW 2ed. ?

1. More of Clayton Graham's artwork! This guy kicks. I dunno what it is, but his amerime style really does it for me.

2. More adventure seeds/hooks. The random generator in the back of 1ed. is fine, but I would have preferred a few more pages of pre-thought-through adventure ideas, and have the random generator as a web extra.

3. Smaller font sizes, and closer-packed text. Maybe I'm just used to the font sizes White Wolf and SJ Games (among others) use, but UW 1ed. seemed a little like the essays I used to write in high school: large fonts and few words on a line, to make it look like there's more text than there really is. :)

Besides, with the space you'd save using slighter smaller fonts, and laying off on the justified text alignment, you could pack in more nifty stuff and Clayton Graham artwork. :)

4. Better written and edited flavor text / game fiction. I loved the story about Goodfella Robin and the poker game, but the opening piece of fiction could really have been much better, especially since it served as an intro to the book.

5. More consistency in the layout and design, and general production values. Respect to the Jaffe brothers, love their work and all, but Joshua Jaffe still had a lot to learn about readability and consistency when he was working on UW 1ed. Yes, his work in Last Exodus is vastly improved, but it still suffers from some jarring awkwardnesses.

6. An updated inspirography. This was one of the sections I found very useful in 1ed., and I like to see an expanded (though smaller fonted and paragraph spaced :) ) version in 2ed. This is where I first discovered the works of China Mieville and others, and more readers should have the chance to do the same.

7. Better designed character sheets. Yes, the two sheets in 1ed. looked nice, but I would've preferred a single full-page sheet, with space for character extras like exploits and equipment notes, as well as more readable design.

I realise most of this is design commentary, but hopefully it's helpful. :)

[AndyGuest]

4. Better written and edited flavor text / game fiction. I loved the story about Goodfella Robin and the poker game, but the opening piece of fiction could really have been much better, especially since it served as an intro to the book.

Can't remember if I commented on this before or not. I like the opening text but found it a bit heavy on the in game details. That is to say, I couldn't follow the opening story until I had read the rest of the game, even though I'd followed the design columns.

So to put it another way, I like it, I think it should be in the book, but I think it should be towards the end of the book and something more newbie friendly should be at the beginning, perhaps something describing an upworlder coming into the underworld for the first time, so as to serve as an introduction for new readers.

[Jason L Blair]

On the fiction tip, what I would like to see is something like the scenes from the UW soundtrack. Maybe you could introduce each section with something like that? Since you're merging the UW mainbook and Down Below, I'm not sure how UW2 is going to be structured so perhaps that wouldn't fit. I do like the fiction, though, and think it should be kept. Some people have a hatred of fiction, but those people tend to think RPG books should look like stereo instructions (Insert Stat A into Slot C of the UW2ed Character Sheet [see diagram]). Bah. Art, baby! ART!

[Jürgen Mayer]

7. Better designed character sheets. Yes, the two sheets in 1ed. looked nice, but I would've preferred a single full-page sheet, with space for character extras like exploits and equipment notes, as well as more readable design.

I uploaded my custom, full page Underworld character sheet to rpgsheets.com, you can download it by clicking the following link:
UWCS.pdf

[GMSkarka]

A couple of comments to the recent spate of posts:

1) Clayton Graham artwork.  A lot of folks had exactly the opposite opinion...they HATED the anime-influenced stuff.   To be honest, I haven't made up my mind yet regarding what to do with that stuff.  Some of it (the Navigator, for example) I loved.  But others (the Bravo) not so much.  Not sure if I want more from him.  All of which is wrapped up in the big question:  is that style too much of a jarring switch from everything else.  My instinct tells me yes...Clayton's stuff is amazing, but only workable if I did the whole book like that.   I'd love to hear further comments.

2) Fiction.  UW2 is going to have a bunch of new fiction pieces of varying length, and I might be dropping some of the work from the 1st edition, depending on how space works out.

3) Layout.   It looks like I'm probably going to be doing that myself, unless I get a look at the sample pages that SOMEONE who recently posted said they were working up for me....  *ahem*

GMS

[ReverendCuster187]

Heres my take on things;

1) The anime style artwork was great, and meshed well with the rest of the book, far better than a lot of the (frankly quite shit) other stuff in there

2) Fiction like the Goodfella Robin story and the interview with the subway worker is great, but the opener story left a lot to be desired. I think the emphasis should be on mystery and intrigue rather than action

3) Keep the hiphop/graffiti feel to the game. It is definately what sold it to me

Keep up the good work!

[TSL]

Nothing like getting complemented and insulted in the same sentence. LOL

As the party responsible for both the Goodfella Robin and the opening fiction piece, Down Below, I'll just tell you guys this:

Down Below was meant to be in pieces through-out the book, not one continuous story.  But I agree with all and sundry, if I had it to over again, I'd re-written it a few more times...

Hey, wait a minute... I get to do it over again.  Yipee!  

New fiction though, new fiction.  Hmm, maybe, after UW2 is out, I'll do a proper rewrite on the original story and put it up on the web.

[Tim Gray]

Fiction - off the top of my head the only really expendable bit was the Alfred Ely Beach thing. The rest were quite good - or would have been, with editing etc.

Maybe some of it could be used to paint pictures of what it's like to walk into a domain, what everyday life is like, etc.

[Jürgen Mayer]

1) Clayton Graham artwork.  A lot of folks had exactly the opposite opinion...they HATED the anime-influenced stuff.   To be honest, I haven't made up my mind yet regarding what to do with that stuff.  Some of it (the Navigator, for example) I loved.  But others (the Bravo) not so much.  Not sure if I want more from him.  All of which is wrapped up in the big question:  is that style too much of a jarring switch from everything else.  My instinct tells me yes...Clayton's stuff is amazing, but only workable if I did the whole book like that.   I'd love to hear further comments.

I love Clayton's artwork; yes, it is different, but in a refreshing way.

If you think that his style doesn't mesh well with others, then take all his pics (and prolly Peter Johnson's stuff, which would go well with it) and do a whole chapter (maybe the action chapter, because most of their stuff is very combat oriented) with this art.

I know the budget is tight, but if there are some bucks left for art, I would recommend to select your [insert number of chapters here] favourite artists from 1st Ed., and hire them for some additional artwork specifically for the chapter you want them in, so that you have consistent artwork in every chapter. This also helps when browsing the book for info during the game: when I spot a Clayton artwork, I know I am in the combat section, for example. Use one artist to illustrate all the Breeds and Guilds. Use another one for the magic section, you get my point.

That's how I would do it. (Yes, I'm volunteering for UW2 art direction.)

[soundwave]

I know the budget is tight, but if there are some bucks left for art, I would recommend to select your [insert number of chapters here] favourite artists from 1st Ed., and hire them for some additional artwork specifically for the chapter you want them in, so that you have consistent artwork in every chapter. This also helps when browsing the book for info during the game: when I spot a Clayton artwork, I know I am in the combat section, for example. Use one artist to illustrate all the Breeds and Guilds. Use another one for the magic section, you get my point.

This has to be the best RPG visual design idea I've ever heard.

Not only is it functional and utilitarian, with the ability to locate chapters with visual cues, but it allows for both consistency and variety in artwork styles.

This one is definitely a winner.

As far as picking an artist to do the archetype portraits, my advice is make sure you get someone with a crisp, clean and recognisable style, so that readers do actually get some idea of what that Breed/Guild is all about. Also, it might be an idea to have the portraits depict either a) odd or unusual combinations of Breed and Guild, to show the variety possible and spark ideas (i.e. a Feral Artificer) OR b) common combinations, to illustrate traditional roles and mixes that work well together (i.e. a Junkman Bravo).

On a side note, I don't know what material that was planned for DownBelow you'll include in UW2, but I'd like to see one or two more Guilds added, particularly ones with a more social/communicative role, like diplomats and/or messengers. I imagine there's a fair bit of call in the world below for individuals who can communicate easily with those in many other domains, as well as people who know quick, safe routes between them.