Pros and Cons of Gaming

[Jo Anne B.]

I need some help.  I have an argument essay on gaming to write.  I need to have pros and cons of gaming.  I have a limited knowledge on the subject.  I only have about 24 hours to write it.  Please help me in any way any of you can.

Thank you

Jo Anne

[Valamir]

Well, for starters.

1) What do you mean by gaming:  Gambling, board games, RPGs, Card Games?  Comparisons of the above?

2) Who is your audience?

[Ron Edwards]

Hi there,

I also suggest that you complete the assignment based on your own observations. The best way to do that is to read several of the threads on this forum, as well as those at RPG.net (a general site) or The Escapist (a site about role-playing and society), and decide what issues you'll be discussing as well as your take on it, based on what you see.

In other words, I'm not sure that what we say about the issue is relevant, so much as your observations about what we are saying to one another. The paper should present your opinion, not ours.

Best,
Ron

edited to fix a URL format (twice! damn!)

[Jo Anne B.]

I was mostly going to focus on fastasy RPGs, because that is all I am familiar with.  I have only been gaming for about a year, maybe year and a half.  My audience is college students, the oldest maybe in 40s, youngest about 19-20.

[Mike Holmes]

Is the essay intended to just enumerate current benefits/problems bandied about in RPGs, or is this to supposed to be your take on such issues? I think we're still fuzzy on what you're looking for.

Also, even if we were to start listing Pro's and Con's, you'd probably get a pretty biased view. I think it's safe to say we're all pretty pro RPGs here. For example, the whole Religion vs Gaming controversy. Most here would just say it's a big bunch of nonsense perpetrated by wacko religious zealots who are badly misinformed.

At least at The Escapist, you may find links to the groups that are against RPGs. But even that's going to provide a slanted view.

Still, I am sorta itching to discuss the topic anyhow. So if you really think it worthwhile, let us know.

Ron, if we were to just light off a discusion of advocacy, she could just make her own assessments, couldn't she? I'd think that advocacy falls within the purview of The Forge to discuss, no?

Mike

[Jo Anne B.]

I am sorry if I am not giving enough info.  All I know of the assignment, is that it is an argument paper.  My instructor said normally someone chooses abortion or gun control or something.  I have to go into both views, pro and con.  I have to quote someone from both sides, and give my own view.  Since I have only been gaming for a short time period, and only fantasy stuff, like Exalted, GURPS, and D&D, I don't have much knowledge.  I can say that I have been on both sides of gaming, I am kind of on hiatus from gaming for a while, but I did enjoy it.  The class is English 1010 composition and rhetoric.  There is no required length, but I do have to go into both sides.  My problem is that its due tomorrow at 5:30.  Thats all I can think of right now.

Again, thanks for all the help.

Jo Anne

[Valamir]

Heh, heh.  Admitting to waiting until the last minute to complete an assignment on a forum moderated by a college professor...how deliciously ironic.

As far as helpful advice, I'm afraid advocacy isn't really a topic we've spent a lot of time hashing out here.  As has been noted we are pretty much completely biased on the subject.

The Escapist almost certainly will have more useful ideas on that topic than we could provide in the time frame given.

[Ron Edwards]

Hi Mike,

Thanks for calling me in. Frankly, I don't think we could contribute anything that The Escapist doesn't present already (and better). I also think you're right in that we'd produce, pretty much, a whole lot of confirmations that we thinking role-playing is great, and that objections to its existence are largely self-promoting power-trips rather than substantive activism.

Jo Anne, I do think we'll do better with your question if you explain what you mean by "pro" and "con." Are we talking about a particular policy toward role-playing? As in, you have to be 18 to buy them, or they have to be sold from behind a glass counter? Or are we talking about a vague "good" and bad"?

I suggest that the more concrete you are in defining pro and con, the better we'll be able to deal with it, and - frankly - the more likely I am to permit the discussion to continue.

I cannot over-stress, however, that we cannot do your assignment for you. There are already thousands of posts here and elsewhere, as well as many excellent links to check out, that can provide you with a lot of material. I'm definitely inclined to ask you to spend time doing that, then (if you want) come back with highly specific questions.

For instance, in the late 80s, I introduced some kids at a neighborhood center to D&D, and one parent got pretty upset about it. I could tell you about that sort of thing if it's relevant to (1) your overall topic and (2) a general issue you've isolated through studying other sources. But just sounding off about it right now isn't what I think the Forge is for.

Best,
Ron

[Jo Anne B.]

By pro and con I simply mean for or against gaming.  I heard somewhere that some people think gaming is the devil's work.  And I also heard somewhere else that role-playing was originally used as a therapy.  I don't mean to make the moderators agitated at a 19-yr. old's desperate plea for help, I'm just trying to get as much info as I can.  If you want to stop my rantings, go ahead.

[Clinton R. Nixon]

I'll give you a quote for your con side right now, so you can have a reasonably coherent and informed one:

Playing fantasy role-playing games (FRPGs) is not an activity for everyone. I'd particularly suggest it's not an activity for those that are young, easily influenced, or not firm in their religious beliefs. The act of playing FRPGs is one of imagining yourself in another world where the laws of nature and of God are radically different, and individuals who have a hard time keeping that distinction should be discouraged from getting involved in this activity.

When someone allows the influence of FRPGs to have too much of an influence on their mind, and the games begin to alter their perception of the real world, these individuals may become more involved in occult activities, illegal drugs, deviant sex practices (look at any FRPG convention for examples of this), and even violent criminal activity, as the average FRPG not only mentions all of these, but even promotes them as valid lifestyle choices within the fantasy world.

The most well-known FRPG, Dungeons and Dragons, explicitly rewards players for using mind-altering drugs (potions), worshiping bizarre cult-ish gods, dabbling in magical arts, and killing others for their money and goods. In fact, the reward system in Dungeons and Dragons is based on the fact that a character becomes more powerful by killing others, a value that could be extrapolated from the works of Frederich Nietzsche, a German philosopher well-known for saying, "God is dead." (This was said by a character in one of his books, but is often attributed to him.)

I am not saying these games promote real-world illicit activity. I am saying that the activities they promote within the fantasy world would be considered immoral in the real world, and that individuals that cannot distinguish between fantasy and reality should be steered clear of these influences.

--
Clinton R. Nixon
Technical Administrator, The Forge (www.indie-rpgs.com)

[Valamir]

Playing fantasy role-playing games (FRPGs) is not an activity for everyone. I'd particularly suggest it's not an activity for those that are young, easily influenced, or not firm in their religious beliefs. The act of playing FRPGs is one of imagining yourself in another world where the laws of nature and of God are radically different, and individuals who have a hard time keeping that distinction should be discouraged from getting involved in this activity.

Of course thats also true about reading books, watching TV, the internet, listening to music, professional wrestling, and going to the movies.

Basically, if you lack the ability to distinguish fantasy from reality, EVERY activity has the potential to lead to dangerous repurcussions.

Those who single out role playing for attention miss the point that there's something screwed up about those people to begin with and something (doesn't really matter what) was bound to send them over the edge sooner or later.

[Laurel]

Jo, I'm going to post up an  list of links that address both sides of the "is gaming evil" issue that I happened to have collected for a different project.  Pro and con are not in any particular order.  They provide helpful resources- writing the paper is up to you, though. :)


1)Religious Tolerance.Org
http://www.religioustolerance.org/d_a_d.htm
What the religious left saysabout fantasy RPGs.

2) Role-Playing Games and Satanism
http://www.locksley.com/6696/rpgsatan.htm
"Game Hysteria and the Truth" by Michael A. Stackpole

3) Christian RPG resources
http://www.phoenix-games.com/lotp/lotp-cgaming.html
Legend of the Phoenix and other Christian RPGs

4) Why Are Some Christians Opposed to D&D?
http://athos.rutgers.edu/pub/soc.religion.christian/faq/d&d

5) Christian Gaming
http://www.christiangaming.com/
Portal for Christian role-players

6) Role Playing Games- Good or Evil?
http://christianteens.about.com/library/weekly/aa111299.htm

7) Religious Symbolism in Video Games
http://www.somerandomguy.com/religion.shtml

8) Arguments Against Roleplaying (With Replies)
http://www.alliance-britney.com/ban-2001/netscape/argument.h tm

9) Do Role-PLaying Games Promote Crime,Satanism and Suicide?
http://www.dawn-joy.com/orion/kurt/html/roleplayinggames.htm

10) Dark in the Dungeon
http://www.worldmag.com/world/issue/02-27-99/cultural_3.asp
"These role-playing games flourish only in a milieu devoid  of history"... by Mark Wegierski

11) Difficult Questions: Christianity and Console Role  Playing Games
http://members.dandy.net/~mjyoung/letter06.htm

12) The Danger of Fantasy Role-Playing Games
http://www.johnankerberg.org/ankerberg-articles/dungeons.htm

[Clinton R. Nixon]

Valamir,

I'm sure you realize that I'm not pigeon-holing gaming - just narrowing my comments to it since it's the topic at hand. I find the majority of humanity unable to figure out how to tie its own shoelaces. I also thought I'd provide a coherent anti-gaming view before Jo Anne got a babbling fool one.

[Valamir]

Absolutely Clinton, I was just providing a counter comment to your counter comment.

Course then Laurel goes and does something really constructive rendering our efforts pale by comparison ;-)

[Jo Anne B.]

i do want to thank all of you for the help. it is very appreciated.

Jo Anne