[TSoY] Confused by the 2nd edition

[Barlennan]

I recently read the TSoY revised edition Creative Commons version, and I'm afraid I'm finding parts of it hard to follow.

I should mention that my only experience with narrativist play has been a single session of InSpectres.  Probably more experienced narrativists will consider the answers intuitive.  Also, I haven't read the first edition rules; if the answers are there, could they please be added to the TSoY Wiki Errate page sometime?


1. How is damage from failed ability checks modelled?

The Story Guide has free reign here to say, "That's a giant boulder. If you fail, Pieter falls and will break a bone."

What happens mechanically if Pieter fails?  Does he take some level of Harm?  This is implied by the "For the Story Guide" section at the end of the rules, but not discussed anywhere else.


2. Why does the section on resisted ability checks mention killing characters without BDtP?

The losing player must abide by the winner's stated intention for the ability check, even if it was "I kill that sorry character."

Does this mean that (technically) one PC can kill another without BDtP?  The victim will probably Bring Down the Pain anyway, but it seems to be an odd ruling, since SGCs are immune to being killed like this.


3. During BDtP, is Harm based on Success Level, or difference between Success Levels?

The base harm is equal to the success level of the acting player's roll, which can be modified by Secrets or weapons.

...scoring SL 4 (Amazing) versus his SL 2 (Good). With the +1 weapon, that's harm level 3 to Gael.

The rules imply that it's absolute success level, while the example implies it's relative success level.  In other posts on this board, the example is ignored when it contradicts the rules. 

Still, if it's absolute success level, how often does this happen:
Alfie and Bertie are fighting, both with the goal of killing the other.  (Admittedly, with this sort of dysfunction, there's probably no set of rules that will handle the outcome pleasantly.)  They have chosen to BDtP.  Both have Bladework at Grand Master level.  Both have swords that give +1 harm in this situation.
Both characters spend their maximum of one Instinct die. 
Alfie rolls +1, Bertie rolls +2.
This means that Alfie's Success Level is 5, against Bertie's Success Level of 6.  Bertie wins the duel, causing 7 harm.  Unless someone has gift dice to spare and wants to offer them to Alfie, he's dead because he merely rolled a 'legendary' success.


4. Where do +3 items come from?

Weapons and armor can occur in the game in two ways. The Story Guide can declare any item in the game to give +1 harm or protection in a particular situation. For example, someone using a sword to fight an unarmed person could be given +1 harm to all her attacks, or someone with a sack of gold could be given +1 harm to influence someone else. Alternatively, any player can declare her character's equipment to have a bonus with the Secret of Imbuement. This purchase is subject to Story Guide approval.

I like the idea of the "writ of birthday immunity", but it's hard to imagine a player spending three Advances to get one.  How often do +3 items appear in play?


Probably just not in the in the correct frame of mind yet,
Michael

[Clinton R. Nixon]

1. How is damage from failed ability checks modelled?

The Story Guide has free reign here to say, "That's a giant boulder. If you fail, Pieter falls and will break a bone."

What happens mechanically if Pieter fails?  Does he take some level of Harm?  This is implied by the "For the Story Guide" section at the end of the rules, but not discussed anywhere else.

The Story Guide needs to state this up-front, but yes, he can take harm. (Actually, he can only take harm if the Story Guide is also rolling the dice.) He can be hurt mechanically otherwise - the Story Guide is fully within her rights to say up-front "If you fail, Pieter will break his leg and not be able to walk for two weeks.

2. Why does the section on resisted ability checks mention killing characters without BDtP?

The losing player must abide by the winner's stated intention for the ability check, even if it was "I kill that sorry character."

Does this mean that (technically) one PC can kill another without BDtP?  The victim will probably Bring Down the Pain anyway, but it seems to be an odd ruling, since SGCs are immune to being killed like this.

The quote above is referring to an NPC. Any named character, including PCs, cannot be killed without BDTP.

3. During BDtP, is Harm based on Success Level, or difference between Success Levels?

The base harm is equal to the success level of the acting player's roll, which can be modified by Secrets or weapons.

...scoring SL 4 (Amazing) versus his SL 2 (Good). With the +1 weapon, that's harm level 3 to Gael.

The rules imply that it's absolute success level, while the example implies it's relative success level.  In other posts on this board, the example is ignored when it contradicts the rules. 

Still, if it's absolute success level, how often does this happen:
Alfie and Bertie are fighting, both with the goal of killing the other.  (Admittedly, with this sort of dysfunction, there's probably no set of rules that will handle the outcome pleasantly.)  They have chosen to BDtP.  Both have Bladework at Grand Master level.  Both have swords that give +1 harm in this situation.
Both characters spend their maximum of one Instinct die. 
Alfie rolls +1, Bertie rolls +2.
This means that Alfie's Success Level is 5, against Bertie's Success Level of 6.  Bertie wins the duel, causing 7 harm.  Unless someone has gift dice to spare and wants to offer them to Alfie, he's dead because he merely rolled a 'legendary' success.

Actually, the rules are wrong there. Earlier in the rules, you'll read "If two characters are taking action against each other (perpendicular actions), the check is a resisted ability check. The loser at this check takes harm equal to the difference between the success levels, possibly modified by Secrets and weapons." That is correct.

4. Where do +3 items come from?

Weapons and armor can occur in the game in two ways. The Story Guide can declare any item in the game to give +1 harm or protection in a particular situation. For example, someone using a sword to fight an unarmed person could be given +1 harm to all her attacks, or someone with a sack of gold could be given +1 harm to influence someone else. Alternatively, any player can declare her character's equipment to have a bonus with the Secret of Imbuement. This purchase is subject to Story Guide approval.

I like the idea of the "writ of birthday immunity", but it's hard to imagine a player spending three Advances to get one.  How often do +3 items appear in play?

It's only one advance to get a bonus of any sort, +1, +2, or +3.

Probably just not in the in the correct frame of mind yet,
Michael

Michael,

You're doing great! Don't sweat it.

[Barlennan]

Thank you, I'm now much more confident that I understand both the letter and spirit of the rules.

I was a little confused by the first item, however:

The Story Guide needs to state this up-front, but yes, he can take harm. (Actually, he can only take harm if the Story Guide is also rolling the dice.) He can be hurt mechanically otherwise - the Story Guide is fully within her rights to say up-front "If you fail, Pieter will break his leg and not be able to walk for two weeks.

Does this mean that he can't suffer harm for failure unless there's an opposing Story Guide Character that the Story Guide is rolling dice for?  Is this because characters can't BDtP on an unopposed ability check, and the Story Guide is not permitted to inflict harm without offering BDtP as an escape clause?

If a physical obstacle is significant enough, should I turn it into a Story Guide Character to permit this? 
("At last you behold the amulet of McGuffin.  It stands at the top of a hundred-foot cliff which bears a deep hatred of all Dwarfs after witnessing the cruel demise that befell its brother.  This is an opposed skill roll, your Athletics against the cliff's Power.  If you succeed, you get the amulet; if you fail, you slip and take level 5 Vigor harm."
[Fail]  [Bring Down the Pain]  [Succeed]
"I carve that stupid cliff into a flight of stairs.  I discover a rich copper seam in the process."
"Yup, that's some geology that won't be bothering you ever again.")

There's also a few other rules that I think I understand, but I'd like to verify.
1. Is every ability listed in book 1 an open ability?
2. Is React the innate ability used to defend against most physical attacks (fists, swords, etc.)?
3. I gather that in BDtP involving parallel actions, it's possible for both characters to suffer harm beyond broken simultaneously.  If this occurs, do both character's intentions happen?

Michael

[Clinton R. Nixon]

Thank you, I'm now much more confident that I understand both the letter and spirit of the rules.

I was a little confused by the first item, however:

The Story Guide needs to state this up-front, but yes, he can take harm. (Actually, he can only take harm if the Story Guide is also rolling the dice.) He can be hurt mechanically otherwise - the Story Guide is fully within her rights to say up-front "If you fail, Pieter will break his leg and not be able to walk for two weeks.

Does this mean that he can't suffer harm for failure unless there's an opposing Story Guide Character that the Story Guide is rolling dice for?  Is this because characters can't BDtP on an unopposed ability check, and the Story Guide is not permitted to inflict harm without offering BDtP as an escape clause?

Unopposed checks are a place that I'm never quite happy with the system. It's hard to threaten harm, as with an unopposed check, you'd have to set the level of harm yourself up-front instead of making a roll. I'd say that if a physical obstacle really is that significant, give it Power.

For how to use physical obstacles, see some of the threads around here about "people vs. furniture" and what not. To sum it up - use these as problems, not as complete obstacles. Make the roll about "do you climb the cliff before so-and-so catches you?" Then you roll against so-and-so.

There's also a few other rules that I think I understand, but I'd like to verify.
1. Is every ability listed in book 1 an open ability?
2. Is React the innate ability used to defend against most physical attacks (fists, swords, etc.)?

Yep and yep.

3. I gather that in BDtP involving parallel actions, it's possible for both characters to suffer harm beyond broken simultaneously.  If this occurs, do both character's intentions happen?

Huh. This is going to sound all mystical-guru of me, but - you should try that and find out. As a Story Guide, it's really up to you to interpret what happens there.