Hello Forge + I need a game to play/ I'm designing a game

[Andy Kitkowski]

I want to just post here to encourage you to read, again, what Joshua just wrote up there above. :-)  Seriously. 

So, after years of talking, I too am now off my duff, and am 23 pages into My First Game.  I was basically impotent for years in this field, thinking that I had to have all my rules focus on one agenda, use the One Golden Rule from Game X that will improve my game (and thus must read and research Every Game out there to make sure I get ALL the rules before I put a word to paper!!!), come up with something Entirely New and My Own, or have rules that like Josh said all revolve around one mechanic.

It took me, what, like nearly three years (I'd say "More", but for the sake of crap I'll just count my years of involvement with The Forge) to get over all that and just deal with what I had.  My game is gonna be Gam and Nar, but play out like a Ghostbuster Dungeon Crawl. It's going to have wobbly crunchy bits, it's going to have classes and levels (!) yet ignore the traditional use of them as a power scale (!!!), it's going to have two resolution mechanics, it's going to have PAINFUL background fiction, it has exactly Zero new things (rather being an amalgam of about 10 other Games I Like)... And the only reason that I started this monstrosity is because I just decided to sit the f*** down and finally start typing a game instead of typing a post on the Forge or RPGNet about a game. 

I'm a big pragmatist in theory and practice, and I think the thing that will help you design excellent games, is to start designing games.  Sure, think about them, talk about it, but DO IT to. Go through the motions, even if all you produce is crap for a while. You'll get better.

[MusedFable]

There is a fuzzy idea growing in my head.  I have to work tonight, so I'll make my 24hr RPG tomorrow.

I like setting lite.  Give me the available pieces of the world and let us figure it out while playing.  A list of races that may or may not be used.  A list of equipment that may or may not be used.  I like setting lite, with lots of content or potential content.

I like my rules as streamlined as possible.  I don't mind playing complex games or simple games as long as the rules aren't any more cumbersome than they have to be.

Game Emphasize:  pick... ONE?  Hmm.  Right now my fuzzy idea is about power struggles, but that seems to cover everything.  Character development is important, but probable isn't our main focus.  I like fleshing out characters and having them grow personalities, but it doesn't seem like the number 1 reason we play.  Combat (or any conflict) is exciting, but only if there is something at stake.  It's fun to find out if you can defeat something, but doing it for no reason isn't something we do (well... often).  Story telling is good, but tackling a specific premise doesn't sound fun to me.  Escalating tension is good, but I think that every game wants that.  Game balance is there so I don't twink out my guy and try and "win".  I know it won't make me happy when I'm doing it, but I seem to abuse loopholes anyway.  Maybe I should get some self control.

I think I'll start on my "24hr" rpg right away.  Like I care if I cheat and use more than one day to make it.  I'm working 10hr days and I don't feel like burning myself out.  I realize the point is to give yourself a deadline, and force yourself to actually finish something, but I'm an extremely determined person, so I'm not worried about not finishing it in a few days.

Thanks everyone.  I'll see if I can find any discussion about the bitterst roleplayer.  Then I'll get to work.


Joshua posted as I was righting this so I'll respond:

I don't want one system to rule them all.  Using your analogy I want to take a bite of porterhouse and then follow it with a bite of icecream.  I don't want to eat the whole damn steak before I get to eat my icecream.  I'll be bored of the steak by then, and then I'll get sick of the icecream after a bit too.

I like lots of different systems.  I like big fat encyclopedia games that I can swim inside the rules.  I like 4 page systems that are only good for oneshots and fall apart if you think about them to long.

I don't think my probable is trying to stick with one Creative Agenda.  I think my problems is I have Creative Agenda ADD.  I skip all over the place while playing a single game with nothing guiding my longterm.  One minute I'm super strategizing an OD&D fireball and the next minute I'm having a debate about if we should kill the orc children (and with OD&D I run into the rules system not supporting my premise exploration).

I'm going to try and get my ideas down into a game in the next day or two, so I'll see what that produces.  Maybe I'll accidentally invent porterhouse icecream (but I doubt it).


Andy posted while I was responding to Joshua:

I don't care about innovation or being clever or new.  I just want to sit down and have the best gaming of my life.  I was just under the illusion that system didn't matter after playing oh so many games.  I kept trying new games so quickly because I liked the variety.  We had story arch's and finished campaigns.  We didn't just jump from game to game in search of a dream. 

It was like watching a bunch of B grade movies.  We finished every one of them.  We often watched whole series' of them (a campaign).  But we where never under the illusion that we where just going to randomly run into the "best movie ever".  But, I did think I would at some point run into a movie that mixes comedy and horror (like the Devil's Rejects).  That's enough of that analogy.

[JarrodHenry]

If you're doing a 24 hour RPG, I recommend fully that you stop at the 24 hour mark and post it.  One thing I discovered in doing mine , Amnesia, is that much of the 24 hour thing is less deadline and more innovative.  If you're time pressed, you will think up some amazing things.. and if you remove that deadline, you'll just fall into a monotany and might not come up with those "innovative gems amongst the rock." 

That's just me , though. 

I wouldn't worry so much about Creative Agenda or things like that if I were you.  True insight on that seems to come with repeated application and analysis.  I'd focus on just making games.  If they don't work, then look to the theory, and tune from there. 

There's a lot of things to making games.  No one says you've got to find the Grail on your first walk out of the castle.

Jarrod

[Joe J Prince]

Great thread.

Matt, I see a lot of myself in what you say!
Though I get to role-play so infrequently I'll play anything. Well maybe not D20...

That said I'd be interested in what you make of my own (largely overlooked) rpgs.

I think that especially Swansong or perhaps Call To Adventure may be what you are looking for.
Mechanically they're as balanced as you can get while preserving the GM's role.

Or perhaps not. Still I'd like to see how they rate in the don't suck scale ;)

I could send you (or anyone else) complementary copies if you want to review them.

As for the 24hr rpg, I look forward to seeing what you come up with and personally, I'd be more interested in seeing a playable game that took a couple of days to write up then an unfinished hardcore 24hr offering.
Please could you post a link to it in this forum when it's done. Good luck!

cheers,
Joe

[MusedFable]

If you're doing a 24 hour RPG, I recommend fully that you stop at the 24 hour mark and post it.  One thing I discovered in doing mine , Amnesia, is that much of the 24 hour thing is less deadline and more innovative.  If you're time pressed, you will think up some amazing things.. and if you remove that deadline, you'll just fall into a monotany and might not come up with those "innovative gems amongst the rock." 

That's just me , though. 

I wouldn't worry so much about Creative Agenda or things like that if I were you.  True insight on that seems to come with repeated application and analysis.  I'd focus on just making games.  If they don't work, then look to the theory, and tune from there. 

There's a lot of things to making games.  No one says you've got to find the Grail on your first walk out of the castle.

Jarrod

What's with the Holy Grail talk.  Did I say something in my posts somewhere that said I only want to play one game for the rest of my life???  I think the opposite is my problem.  I like to many different kinds of play and get my fill of any of them rather quickly, and I want to jump around a lot.

J J Prince
The cards actually seem to add something to the game instead of being a gimmic (I'm looking at the demo's).  I don't really see the point of the games though.  I know what they are about and I understand the refrences, but I don't know what I'd do with it (that's probable explained in the full game).  The setting seems to entrenched in the mechanics for me, and I don't like flair points in CtA.  Those are all for personal reasons though.  I don't think they are bad design elements; they just aren't my cup of tea.  Michelle might be a little more inclined to want to play them though, so I'll show them to her.  I don't want to review anything though.  I'm overly critical and I don't really feel like reviewing anything. 

[JarrodHenry]

Mused, actually you do seem to have very rigid qualities for what you want in a game.

This is supported by the fact that you ask about where we get the opinion that you seem to be on a Grail quest.. and then you cement that opinion by finding things about Joe's game that you don't think you'd like.

My suggestion stands.  Don't try to make the perfect game, because you'll never do it.

[MusedFable]

Mused, actually you do seem to have very rigid qualities for what you want in a game.

This is supported by the fact that you ask about where we get the opinion that you seem to be on a Grail quest.. and then you cement that opinion by finding things about Joe's game that you don't think you'd like.

My suggestion stands.  Don't try to make the perfect game, because you'll never do it.

I think the best thing for me to do right now is to try and make my own game.  I have no idea where to start though.  Today I'm spending the next couple hours reading the Forge trying to find some tips on how to make a game (where to start, list of pieces you need for a game).  It looks like the best place to start is with:  What is the game about?  What to the Players do?  What do the Characters do?

So, right now I'm trying to figure out what the hell my game should be about.

[Judd]

It looks like the best place to start is with:  What is the game about?  What to the Players do?  What do the Characters do?

So, right now I'm trying to figure out what the hell my game should be about.

Sounds like you've got a good start.

When Jared was on Sons of Kryos he said something really interesting.  He quoted someone, a famous film director, as saying that if you are a film maker and you want to review a movie, you don't write a review but you make another movie.

Pick a game you love or despite or have frustrations with and make it from the ground up your way.

I'm not talking about making cosmetic changes ala changing D&D's magic system or making violence in CoC effect sanity; I am talking about taking the game, totally taking it apart and deconstructing it and making it your way, throwing away the parts you don't dig.

Take a game that causes a strong reaction in your gut and make a game that makes it right in your eyes.

And make it fun, there's always that.

Good luck.

[Tobias]

Lot's of snippage, but the following points stand out to me:

This man (I've met no women who fit this description) is cursed. He's cursed because the only people who can enjoy playing with him, and vice versa, are those who share precisely his goals, and these goals are very easily upset by just about any others.

Imagine years of just knowing that your "perfect game" is possible, seeing it in your mind, knowing that if only a few other people could just play their characters exactly according to the values that you yourself would play, that your GM-preparation would pay off beyond anyone's wildest dreams.

You've already described that you have at least 2 other players 'coming along' with you.

So how about you just make something that you'll all like?

[MusedFable]

Lot's of snippage, but the following points stand out to me:

This man (I've met no women who fit this description) is cursed. He's cursed because the only people who can enjoy playing with him, and vice versa, are those who share precisely his goals, and these goals are very easily upset by just about any others.

Imagine years of just knowing that your "perfect game" is possible, seeing it in your mind, knowing that if only a few other people could just play their characters exactly according to the values that you yourself would play, that your GM-preparation would pay off beyond anyone's wildest dreams.

You've already described that you have at least 2 other players 'coming along' with you.

So how about you just make something that you'll all like?

That's what I'm going to do.

But I got sidetracked reading just about the entire lumpley website.

I think I know what I'm going to make, and tomorrow I'll set out and make it.  Well a horrible broken and alpha stage version of the game I want.

[dindenver]

Hi!
  Why not GURPS Supers or GURPS Illuminati? Sounds like what you are talking about. GURPS has detail, but doesn;t care if you use any/all of it, the settings are superficial at best and with Supers or Illuminati (maybe Black Ops) you get a power struggle and something at stake...

[Arpie]

Well, whatever you come up with, I'm excited to see it.

You sound a lot like I did 10 years ago. I hope I can be of some help!
(I wish I'd seen this thread earlier!)

[Ron Edwards]

Hello everybody,

Wonderful thread. But it's just beginning, just a little, to turn into a social session, and this is the perfect moment to say "go do" and not get wrapped up in the transition for its own sake.

Count me in for the next step. Let's call this thread closed and see what that next step brings.

Best,
Ron