Rpg "organization"

[Butch]

Hello everybody,

Just want to talk a little bit about "book" organization in a rpg (chapters organization).

I'm just beginning the writing of my game and before talking about organization I want to show you the "table of content" of my game:

Player's book
  introduction
  Part 1: Era Nova - The universe
     chapter 1 - All that it was or the History of Akrhanti
     chapter 2 - Mother Godess and her fellowship
     chapter 3 - Dh'rok and his fellowship
     chapter 4 - The Chosen ones
     chapter 5 - All that it is or the geography of Akrhanti
  Part 2: Era Nova - The system
     chapter 6 - Some insight
     chapter 7 - The game system (action resolution and combat)
     chapter 8 - Economics and equipments
     chapter 9 - The Chosen ones or the archetypes
     chapter 10 - Habilities and special habilities
     chapter 11 - Physical traits & psychological traits (the "emotion" play)
     chapter 12 - "Personal growth" and evolution
     chapter 13 - Character creation

Gamemaster's Book
  Introduction
  Chapter 1 - The way of the gamemaster
  Chapter 2 - Character creation from the gm point of vue
  Chapter 3 - Growth and evolution from the gm point of vue
  Chapter 4 - Dh'rok and his monsters
  Chapter 5 - Disappearance: a small adventure

Character's sheet

That's it!! What I would like to know if it's you find it too unusual to have the character creation chapter to be the LAST chapter in the player's book?!?

Usualy this chapter is one of the first in the system part. You read it and as long as you read it you want to make a character. Then you always have to look further to really make your character.

What do you think about it?!

Thank you.

Patrick

[Clinton R. Nixon]

Patrick,

I can see some good reasons for putting the character creation in the back of the book, but am curious: what's your specific reason for it? I think the answer will help everyone evaluate whether or not it's a good idea.

[Butch]

The specific reason why I put it in the end of the book is that it goes very well with the king of game that I want to do.

I want the player to be able to do exactly the character they want to play in the game universe. It's why you have the "setting" part first. You learn to know where your character will live, what kind of adventure he (or she) can live, etc. After that you have the rules, there the player learns how the system works, etc. After the rules, you have everything that compose a character: archetype, traits, habilities,etc. Finally, you learn in the character creation chapter how tu put all this together.

I think it's just a way to see it: learn every part of it before learning how to put it all together against learn how to put everything together and after that learn the thing separatly.

I'm not sure if I'm clear enough, if you don't understant please let me know, I will try to explain it a different way.

Patrick

[Walt Freitag]

My foolproof method for determining if someone is a Body Snatcher Pod Person:

Write a set of instructions for doing something interesting. Preface those instructions with the admonition: "Read all instructions first before beginning!" Give copy of said instructions to test subject.

Only Pod People will obey. All Real Human Beings will ignore the admonition.

I can't even get my wife -- who's the best role player I know -- to read all the instructions of a board game in advance. After a paragraph or two it's, "enough rules, let's start playing and we can look up the rest of the rules when we need them." I'm the opposite extreme. I'm fanatical about reading the directions. But when I read an RPG book and I get to the part about the dude with the unpronounceable name who created the universe, I skip ahead until I find the part about how to play the game.

So, I understand what you're trying to do but be aware that it goes against human nature. Don't be surprised if a lot of readers read the chapters in exactly the reverse order they appear in the book.

On the more practical side, for those readers who may in fact prove to be Pod People, you'll need to introduce the defining system elements of a character in an earlier chapter, even if you don't include the rules for creating one. Otherwise it's going to be very awkward talking about things like resolution rules and character advancement that require character elements to perform.

- Walt

[Valamir]

You've just described me Walt.  I find I don't have the patience to use a setting, no matter how cool, if the system sucks.  I pick up an RPG book, flip open to the first few pages and say "who put all this world garbage first...where's the rules".  If the game seemed compelling enough for me to hunt for them I will, otherwise the book goes back on the shelf.

I like character creation first because ALOT of the rules concepts are summed up on the character sheet.  If the character sheet has 1 stat, a place for personality traits, and a big box for a picture, you know right there that its a very different type of system from one that has both sides crammed with columns of attributes, skills, and derived traits.

Often times 1 look at the character sheet and a brief jaunt through the character creation chapter will tell me if I have any interest in reading more.

[Eugene Zee]

Patrick,

The whole thing seems very organized, which is great.  The only comment I would make is a small thing.  "If All That Was" is the history of the world, wouldn't it make sense that "All That Is" is the current events of your world, as opposed to geography?

[Eugene Zee]

I am not sure that I mind whether CC is in the beginning or the end.  It varies with many products, that I play, and to tell you the truth I never even noticed.

[Ron Edwards]

Hi Patrick,

Some interesting points on RPG organization were brought up during this discussion on the Sorcerer forum.

Best,
Ron

[Nathan]

You could do simultaneous stuff...

As you recount the Great War (or whatever), the dialog box on the side of the box could be explaining COMBAT RULES. :) As you talk about the important people of the world, character creation rules run down the side.

Cool... If you do it, I'll buy you a haircut.

Thanks,
Nathan

[Le Joueur]

Some interesting points on RPG organization were brought up during this discussion on the Sorcerer forum.

Before we get too far, let's not forget the companion thread, spawned in Indie Game Design.

Fang Langford

p. s. Patrick, welcome to the Forge!

[Christoffer Lernö]

I pick up an RPG book, flip open to the first few pages and say "who put all this world garbage first...where's the rules".

Hahaha me too! :)

I like character creation first because ALOT of the rules concepts are summed up on the character sheet.

And don't forget that a lot of the setting is revealed in the character creation rules as well.