new guy looking for help and input

[red5angel]

ok, so I just recently discovered the Forge and there's a lot to get through before I feel like I've got a solid base so I apologize if I make n00b mistakes or rehash old territory.  I'm grinding through it though!
I did want to start a discussion, and feel free to include links to similar discussions or articles, anything I can find would be great!
I, like many of you I'm sure have been gaming for years, got introduced to gaming by my father, the pink box set of D&D he picked up at a computer store I believe. He sat myself, my younger sister and uncle down and we played through Keep on the Borderlands. I was about 6 at the time, but 5 years later I picked up AD&D and started playing on a regular basis and have been doing it for the last 21 years!
Recently I've been trying to enhance my roleplaying experience.  I've struggled with trying to maximize my roleplaying experience. Initially I thought it was the players so I went in and out of a couple of groups, sent players packing and brought new blood in.
Looked at different games, different systems and different genres and for the most part have discovered a lot of interesting things, but I was still missing something.

Recently I realized one of the things I've become interested in is a more organic or dynamic combat/resolution system.  The turn based, you goes, he goes, is ok and practically inescapable for most settings but recently I've been pondering if it's possible to create something more dynamic or reactive...actually a better word would be interactive.  The initial concept sin my head or something like, one person, the player or GM announces what he is doing, and the combatants all get to decide what they want to do, and somehow you work out the results of that huge mess.  I can even provide an example, sort of, of what I'm looking for:

Huge Star Wars fan, and I recently started running a star wars campaign.  Something that sort of "broke" the game in my mind was the fact that you can't in the D20 system, simulate or re-enact the conflict between Obi-Wan and Annakin in EP3, more specifically, the moment where they are both using the force to push/block each other, and suddenly they fly apart.  It's not possible in the system because of the turn based turn layout.

The second thing I'd like to work on or see, is a skill/class/level system that is also organic.  I'd like to be able to define what an individual is good at, but be flexible enough to allow for some improvisation.  Most systems can be tweaked slightly for this but I've never really run across anything eye catching that does this well.
Let's see if I can explain it. 
I'm a computer tech, I'm also a gamer and a martial artist.  I'm a pretty good Tech, a fairly good gamer, and a pretty good martial artist.  I can also drive a car, swim, climb, camp, cook, run, lift weights, play video games, talk to people, sneak around in the dark, and so on.  Obviously some of these things are inconsequential, the type of thing that most GM's and players can sort of say ok you do that.  But what I'm looking for is some sort of satisfactory system that involves some numbers and dice but doesn't nail you down to a strict template.

So instead of just throwing in and trying to design a system right away I'm looking for input, ideas, suggestions and so on and figured the Forge forums would be an excellent resource for working through this stuff!

So fire away, I'm looking forward to it!

[rafial]

Recently I realized one of the things I've become interested in is a more organic or dynamic combat/resolution system.  The turn based, you goes, he goes, is ok and practically inescapable for most settings but recently I've been pondering if it's possible to create something more dynamic or reactive...actually a better word would be interactive.  The initial concept sin my head or something like, one person, the player or GM announces what he is doing, and the combatants all get to decide what they want to do, and somehow you work out the results of that huge mess.  I can even provide an example, sort of, of what I'm looking for:

Huge Star Wars fan, and I recently started running a star wars campaign.  Something that sort of "broke" the game in my mind was the fact that you can't in the D20 system, simulate or re-enact the conflict between Obi-Wan and Annakin in EP3, more specifically, the moment where they are both using the force to push/block each other, and suddenly they fly apart.  It's not possible in the system because of the turn based turn layout.

Based on this description, and especially your example, I highly suggest you check out Burning Wheel.  It has a forum here at the Forge as well as a dedicated one at the Burning Wheel website.  It uses a system in which all players "script" their actions for a few hearbeats in advance and then the actions are resolved simultaneously.   Simultaneous strikes or actions like you describe happen all the time.  It may not be exactly what you are looking for, but it will certainly show you how things can be done differently.

[Michael]

red5angel

I know I know that pseudonym. You mentioned martial arts. Do you frequent the KFO boards?

And are you looking to design a system or find one that meets certain criteria?

[red5angel]

rafial, haven't checked out Burning Weheel yet but on your suggestin I will!

IagainstI(good song) - yep, atleast I used to, not so mcuh anymore, you?

[Michael]

red5angel

Same here. I haven't been at KFO in quite a while, as I haven't been able to find a good school in years.

[dindenver]

Hey Mike,
  I think you want to look at conflict resolution. Maybe do a search on it in this forum. Basically, instead of rolling for each attack, etc. You roll for the whole conflict. And then narrate the result based on the the roll(s). With a system like that you can generate any result you can describe.
  There are some REAL advsantages to this system, and some pitfalls too. For instance, you have to get the concept through to the players who haven't use this type of system before. Also, you have to let the players set the stakes, because it is all on one roll. But at the same point, players know what is at stake and can narrate the results based on the stakes and outcome.
  I am sure there are some games on the forge that are already using conflict resolution, but I am not sure which is best or which is more suited to your genre, but I bet someone else here might have some good suggestions.

[red5angel]

Conflict resolution sounds intriguing. It could be sort of fun but I wonder if it has any staying power.  the reason I say that is because I find that when most players have to rely on a narrative or creative approach to what they're doing, they tend to fall into patterns.

[red5angel]

Running with the conflict resolution for a moment because my head is spinning with ideas:

I've never come across a system that uses this so I'll throw out some ideas ot help me wrap my head around the concept, I have to admit, it's intriguing -

So, let's say to make a Combat Resolution roll, you add up some modifiers and roll a dice. 

You - A large man who's athletic, and knows how to use a baseball bat from his dade running with the gang

Large - +2, Athletic - +2, Skillled (Baseball Bat) - +1 = Total of 5

The Ninja you're facing off with is smaller, but athletic, Trained as a killer and skilled with his sword

Athletic - +2, Trained, +3, Skilled (Katana) - +2 = Total of 7

Each of you also gets a further +1 for using a weapon you're familiar with.  So totals are:

You - +6, Him - +8

You roll a 6 getting a total of 16, he rolls a 14 getting a total of 22, he wins!

Now you move to the narrative phase of the combat, you know who wins, and the guy who wins get's to determine when the narrative is over, so you could come up with some pretty good scenarios.

It does take care of a few issues.  For example, if you're really good, you can end a fight quickly:

Using the fight above:
You: I swing my bat at his head hoping to catch him and knock him out right away.

GM: He cartwheels with the swing, making you miss.  Landing quietly, he whips his sword matter of factly, backhandedly at you, and cuts your throat.


Or you could drag it out if you want to keep it interesting:

GM: He cartwheels with your bat swing and sweeps a foot out to knock you on your back.  He swings with the katana and you see the gleam of steel as it slashes down at your throat!

You: I kip-up, but get caught in the shoulder by the blade.  I wobble a little, but manage to bring the bat up aiming for an uppercut to the jaw.

GM. He flips back and out of range of your uppercut.  He butterfly kicks towards you, sword out to slice across your ribs.  You're feeling woozy now, shaky on your legs.

You:  I drop the bat, realizing I'm outclassed, and dropped tiredly to my knees in the hopes he spares me or kills me honorably and quickly....

[dindenver]

Hi!
  Yes, that is the jist of it. You can (and maybe should), add a little more complexity to it. Some things are pretty much required for all but the most freeform games:
Intention declaration - Before the roll, each character should in a general sense know that they are declaring a series of tasks and that the outcome is unknown at this point. This phase is pretty much intended to figure out what skills people are using.
Stacks setting - Everything is boiled down to one roll. To allow some player control, each player follows the rules for setting the stakes. In other words, to use your example, the Ninja may not be interested in killing the thug, so he will only risk so much before retreating. And the thug may not want to tangle with a pro, so he might not risk too much before beating feet.
Mechanics - There are ways to codify or skill vs fate vs ability and marry that to possible outcomes
Guidelines - Actual rules into how all of the above work together.
  But yeah, you have the basic idea right. If you really want to allow for unique and creative combat moves, your choice is to use feats like D&D and try and balance them or resolve the fight in one roll and narrate the cool moves. Or something in between...