[Canindar: Primordial Saga] First post for a New Member

[clayton_mcfarland]

Greetings Forumites!

My name is Clayton McFarland, and I am just starting out in the Indie Game Design adventure.  I'm working on a Gamist / Simulationist system which covers life in a fantasy world I've designed, inhabited with demons, strange beasts and monsters of all sorts Canindar is a rugged and primitive planet which humanity has crash landed a colony ship on many centuries ago.  The stories told through my system are of humans trying to survive in a hostile world infected with a demonic presence, which makes day-to-day life a taxing ordeal.  It is a low magic system designed to simulate action adventure stories with fast combat and easy resolution mechanics.

I will be posting bits to hopefully get some critique on in the future.  Since I've been lurking on these boards for quite some time now, and have already garnished a wealth of helpful information from the articles and threads here I felt I should introduce myself.

I look forward to future discussions with all of you!
-Clayton

[xenopulse]

Welcome, Clayton.

Why don't we make this thread productive and jump into a few things before you even post your writeups.  As a starter, I'm curious: I can see where your game aims at, with regards to combat against demons and survival in a harsh environment.  Now, in a few words, what is it about the system you are designing that makes it especially cool to play those things? In other words, what are the exciting aspects of your system that already existing systems don't have? Or, from the other side, what did you find lacking in existing games that you felt you could add or do better?

[clayton_mcfarland]

Well most of the games I've had to run with my friends have been heartbreaker fantasy style D&D games, which don't get me wrong are quite fun, but I've grown weary and I wanted a chance to further develope my own world (which I have been developing since I was 18).  I didn't feel however that any other systems out there really captured the feel I was going for. I wanted to mix technology levels a bit (to show how some groups of humans would degenerate and forget their technologies and pasts quicker than others), and I wanted a system that did away with "Hit Points" completely.  I also wanted to blur the lines between good and evil, having humans begin to develop demonic traits from exposure to the energies on this planet.  Who's to say now exactly who is 'good' and who is 'evil' since the monstrous looking fiend at the end of the clearing you stand in could have been human at one point and is merely trying to survive after being exiled from his friends and family?

Some of the Features I really like about the way I am designing things:

• Points based skill and trait system.  Allows flexibility in character and avoids class and race restrictions (you can essentially build whatever you want, human demon something else?).


• Universal character points for character creation.  You use one pool of points for creation to buy attributes, traits abilities skills and equipment.


• Varying attribute levels.  I wanted a good sense of scale so I have varying attribute levels to help represent the fact that larger and smaller creatures need a way of comparing strengths etc on a different scale.


• Fast easy task resolution and combat.  Combat is a single opposed roll. Attacked roll vs. defender, all the rest of the combat resolution is determined from that one roll.


• Customizable advancement schemes.  Each player has a advancement scheme they can fill in with advances of their choice.  They then use experience gained from play to purchase advances from this scheme.  Each time a scheme is completed the cost for upgrades increases and the player has the option to make changes to the scheme as they see fit.  This allows every player to customize his or her characters attributes, abilities and skills through play.

I'm currently working on the System Reference Guide right now, which I will hopefully be able to post here for some critique before too long.

[Ron Edwards]

Hi, and welcome!

I'm kinda excited by your description. For purposes of comparison, have you checked out my proto-game, Mongrel? There seem to be some aesthetic similarities, and maybe I can understand your game better as you tell me what's similar or different between the two.

One major difference is that Mongrel is primarily experiential, celebrating a certain look & feel without really having much at stake beyond doing it "right." Whereas you're talking about more of a pressure-cooker situation, if I'm correct, not only for the characters but also for the players in terms of tactics and choices. Is that right?

If that's so, and consistent with a very interesting thread going on in Actual Play right now, what's at stake in your game, besides character health and life? What can be gained through exceptional and attentive play, and what stands to be lost if something goes wrong or someone does something foolish?

Best,
Ron

[Troy_Costisick]

Heya,

Welcome to the Forge!  I have a blog that targets people new to design.  It's called Socratic Design.  If you click on that link, you might find some things that will be useful to you, especially the post I made today.  Then again, it could be nothing more than a diversion.  I'll let you decide :)

Anyway, I'm always ready to help a new designer out.  Let me know if you need any help or advice :)

Peace,

-Troy

[clayton_mcfarland]

What players stand to gain / loose:

Aside from health and wealth, players are fighting for the survival of the Human race.  The demonic presence on Canindar grows stronger and stronger with each passing year.  More and more tribes of Demons are cropping up (some violently opposed to Humanity, others peaceful communities), and the demonic forces are producing more and more strangely malformed beasts and monsters.  There is a war on the horizon, and the PC's need to decide whose side they stand on. 

Depending on the actions they take they also stand to loose their own Humanity.  I'm playing with the idea of a system for measuring how far players who have been touched by the demonic powers step away from the righteous path (if they were ever on this path to begin with that is), and whether or not the new powers and strength they have been granted corrupts their mortal souls and has them actually fighting against their own kind.

[dindenver]

Welcome to the Forge Clayton!
  Have you played/thought about making this sytem less about Attributes and skills and more about abilities like http://www.fluffydevil.com/pointofcollapse/rulebook.pdf Point of Collapse?
  Anyways, it sounds like a game with a lot of potential, good luck!

[xenopulse]

Clayton,

So far, so cool. The characters are fighting for two things: a) humanity's survival, and b) their own humanity.I dig it!

Here's my thought on that: as a player, I would enjoy this struggle the most if the two were intricately linked. You say that new powers might corrupt them; that's a good start, because the characters can better protect humankind if they give up a part of their own humanity for greater efficiency. At the same time, it seems to me that being linked to one's human community is the one thing that keeps one's humanity anchored. If you're always out among the demons and don't see, know, and have ties to other humans, it seems to me you're soon doomed. So players need to make tough choices about who they care for and what they're willing to give up in return for being able to protect them better.

The tricky part you'll have to figure out is how to really make the players (not just the characters, but the actual people at the table) care about both humankind (as expressed in particular NPCs and communities they deal with) and their characters' humanity. If you can do that, and weave it well into your combat and reward mechanics, you have a kickass game on your hands.

[clayton_mcfarland]

Therein lies the part of the system that is taking me a while to get mechanics setup for.  I have some ideas mind you, in a fluctuating humanity score that changes overtime based on the actions of the players, and there are rewards for avoiding demonic corruption (abilities that are only available to pure blood humans) and super cool new abilities that are available to those who host a demon or are born of a demonic bloodline.  So if the players want to make their characters the 'best' they can be (which I've found most players do :D) then they will need to maintain a careful balance in order to meet the pre-requisites for each type of ability.

Now the difficult part is finding a simple, solid mechanic to represent fluctuating levels of humanity.

[Ron Edwards]

Hello,

I'm sort of puzzled. There's a war on the horizon, between mutant awful demon-things and the "real people." The players must have their characters choose what side they're on? What, is that some kind of trick question?

I mean, you just said they were fighting to save the human race. And now they get to choose to be on the side of the monsters?

Was that merely one of those echo-y phrases that I associate with the introductory monologue to anime movies? Or a real choice that you are specifically folding into play as part of the system?

Best,
Ron

[clayton_mcfarland]

Sorry man :)

Didn't mean to be confusing, that was mostly me trying to be dramatic [keep in mind I am new too all this ;)].  The more demonic abilities the players manifest the less human they become. Toss around enough crazy evil powers and there is a chance that you will become irreversibly corrupted.  So it is a careful balance that the players must maintain.  Demonic abilities are powerful, but they drain you of soul and compassion.  So as the hordes of demon tribes gather, and their powers grow, the PC's must decide if their own souls should be sacrificed in order to save  the rest of humanity.  I suppose there is the off chance though that some players may feel that joining the demons is the thing to do if their humanity score dwindles to nothing and they begin to actually look like a demon themselves, or if their friends and family no longer will accept them as a result of their sacrifices. :)