[Day of Dupes]Post-Chargen Question

[Peter Nordstrand]

Important: Jonas, Johan, and Kristoffer, this thread is not for you. Please go away.

Everyone else, please stay. I have some specific question this time.

We've finished chargen for our run of Day of Dupes (from Sorcerer's Soul). I've had experience playing with all three players before. I specifically wanted to put these guys together. They all have a wonderful sense of melodrama (I love melodrama) and I think they will work well together. Jonas, by the way, is Jonas Karlsson of One Can Have Her fame. The other two have been mentioned several times in earlier Actual Play threads of mine. None of the characters have been properly named yet. Nicknames will have to do for now.

• We all gladly participated in the discussion about every characters. This is the first time I have really seen players take such an active interest in each others characters during chargen.


• The players made up their demon's Needs. I will decide their Desires.


• I did show the players a modified version of the R-map, and told them that their characters needed to have a relationship of some sort with at least one of the NPCs. I guess this is not standard Sorcerer procedure, but player Johan had specifically requested it! And no, the demon Lukos was not mentioned on the player R-map.


• As a consequence of player input during chargen, I have already decided to alter the R-map noticeably: de Racieux and Carrières are now merged into one single character named de Racieux. As a consequence, Mme Carrières is now de Racieux' wife. I have also removed Duprés entirely: One of the player characters ("Tobacco Man, below") has taken his place in the R-map (i.e. being the lover of de Racieux wife). This will alter certain details in the backstory, which is cool.

I will deal with the characters one at a time in my upcoming posts. I will have a few specific questions, but feel free to comment or question everything.


Thank you for your kind assistance,

/Peter Nordstrand

[Peter Nordstrand]

Tobacco Man
Player: Johan

Tobacco Man is the head of Le Tabac d'Or, a social club that he himself founded with the sole purpose of promoting smoking. A few years ago, in South America, he bought a boatload of tobacco but did not have the means or the manpower to actually load the goods onto the ship. Therefore, he summoned his demon, a Quasimodo-like figure named Hugo, who loaded the entire shipment in a single night. As part of the Binding ritual, Tobacco man sexually assaulted a young noblewoman named Claire de Guiche. I personally find this act very disturbing, even though it was actually my idea. And Tobacco Man's motives were hardly altruistic.

Note: It is imperative that I give Tobacco Man ample opportunity to act honorably. That is what I want to know about this character; is he really an asshole or can he change into an honorable man? I guess this is what my Bangs will be all about.

Hugo
Passer. Need to watch others engage in sexual activity. I want Hugo to recently have developed a Desire for redemption; in fact, he wants to become human as per Sorcerer's Soul page 38.

Question: Have you ever had a PC-bound demon wanting to redeem itself? Do you think it will work? What pitfalls should I watch out for?

Abilities: Cover (Manservant), and, well, what? Essentially, the demon can transport an entire ship-load of cargo over a mile, preferably in nighttime, in under 8 hours or so.

Question: What combination of abilities can accomplish this? I guess he needs Travel, but then what? Big? Is that enough, or do I have to beef up his Power a bit to accomplish this?[/list]

Kicker: Recently, a competitor named Valvert has arrived in Paris. And now, Tobacco Man's latest shipment of tobacco has been quarantined on what appears to be trumped-up charges. And if he can't sell the tobacco, won't be able to pay his debts to his banker (de Racieux).

[Ron Edwards]

Hello!

Fantastic work so far. Let's see what I can make of those questions.

The demon abilities question ... well, I may be over-interpreting your description a little, but as far as I can tell, the demon can load a cargo, within a certain distance, not itself be the ship and deliver the cargo. Is that correct?

If so, then it's pretty easy. This is a demon with Transport (treating the cargo as a "passenger"), a substantial Stamina, and Travel. Transport effectively means that movng the relevant objects or people is above-and-beyond what you might think just to look at the demon. Travel is actually not all that necessary, but it basically accounts for getting across that mile of distance without just walking. If you wanted the demon to move "realistically," i.e. like a human, and the Transport to be the amazing thing, then Travel isn't necessary.

Or to put it a little differently, that Norse giant's magic horse that helps him build the walls of Asgard does not need Travel. He's already a horse.

Now for the second question. If you really want to use those demon-to-human rules, then I suggest that you wait until the other players get invested in the possibility. So at this point, go ahead and play the demon as fascinated or attemping to do Humanity-increasing stuff ... but keep in mind, that's generally not compatible with using its abilities or getting its Need. In other words, play him fully as a demon - but have him also try to be human.

When the other players get interested or even supportive toward this idea, then kick the rules into action.

Also - and very important - the Desire cannot be redemption. The Desire must be a demonic thing. In desiring to be human, the demon is operating against its real/demonic Desire. That's something it will leave behind if it ever gets a real Humanity score.

Best,
Ron

[Lisa Padol]

Also - and very important - the Desire cannot be redemption. The Desire must be a demonic thing. In desiring to be human, the demon is operating against its real/demonic Desire. That's something it will leave behind if it ever gets a real Humanity score.

Thanks -- that made a light bulb go on in my head.

-Lisa

[Peter Nordstrand]

Thank you Ron. You are very helpful, as always. Hm ... how could I miss Transport?

Musketeer
Player: Kristoffer

Musketeer is the son of Comte and Comtesse de Veillot. (See Day of Dupes.) He was originally taught Sorcery to be able to defend against it, but when he found out that his mother's lover was a dastardly sorcerer named LeFebvre, Musketeer summoned a sword-demon and killed LeFebvre in a duel. In the original version of the scenario, LeFebvre died of natural causes, but this has now changed. Cool consequences: Musketeer killed de Racieux' brother. (See Tobacco Man's kicker.) Also, although the player don't know it, it is sort of Musketeer's fault that the demon Lukos is now free to wreak havoc everywhere.

On the surface, Musketeer is all about fencing, fencing, duelling, fencing, fighting, and dueling. All spiced up with a pinch of swordplay. Just check out his stats: Stamina 7 (Swordsman, Agile), Will 2 (Hot-Tempered), Lore 1 (orderly), Cover 7 (Musketeer), Price -1 (A scar that never really heals). In addition, his demon is a fencing sword. The last time Kristoffer played Sorcerer, his demon was eaten by a bigger demon, then he himself turned into a swamp-thing demon that got run over and killed by a mental patient in a car. I bet Kristoffer wants things to turn out differently this time.

Note to Self: Early on, give Musketeer plenty of opportunities to get into fights and win. I want him to successfully defeat hordes of mooks. Kristoffer obviously wants to win fights, so why not give him what he wants?

Fléau de Coeur
Object demon: A fencing sword. Need is to duel. Desire is death. This combo is more problematic than it seems: Killing your opponent is not really the goal of most duels.

Abilities: Confuse (the sword instills fear in opponents), Special Damage Lethal, Boost Stamina (Actually I think that Armor or something would be more interesting and useful. I'll talk to the player about that, but ultimately it is his decision.)

Question: Can you come up with some other Ability to replace Boost with that will help Musketeer do awesome stuff in combat? Suggestions are more than welcome.[/list]

Kicker: His mother has suddeny gone missing, but his father is strangely unwilling to talk about it ... what is he hiding?

I cannot believe that the player actually came up with all of this himself! It fits perfectly. Naturally I will spike the Kicker by having the Comtesse turning up murdered and posthumously raped (by Lukos, but the player won't know that).

[Ron Edwards]

Your instincts are correct about Boost. I am 99% sure it will not do what he thinks it will.

If he wants to be a fighting bad-ass, then he absolutely must understand basic Sorcerer dice use, including bonus dice and rolling-over victories, and most especially how damage works. Tactical combat competence, in Sorcerer, is a fearsome thing, but gamers are pre-disposed to screw it up.

If he can then understand the save-victories rules from Sorcerer & Sword, he'll be terrifying.

Boost, on the other hand, screws all that up ... oh, it adds dice just fine, but the demon is rendered terribly vulnerable, and the other abilities are reduced almost to nothing. Boost really has the perfect title - it's an emergency boost. It's not a combat add in the same sense as a magic sword in a fantasy game, or a "+3 combat" advantage you buy with points in most RPGs.

(As a side note, I am pretty sure that Scott didn't apply Boost correctly when he played and wrote Charnel Gods. He turned most of his demons into pushovers.)

Confuse is definitely called for. Psychic Force under the demon's control is a surprisingly effective combat power; the guy can be fencing away with the sword as a sword (i.e. not using Special Damage), the sword zaps the opponent with the Psychic Force, and then the next move is the Special Damage utilized by the person. Set it up with a Confuse and my God, the dice. If you want to be extra-cool, give the demon Travel and have it only be "duelling movement," so that the character moves so perfectly the opponent is always off-balance. This can be applied as the demon's Power roll, with victories rolling into the duellist's attack - just like any movement-oriented combat augmenter.

Finally, keep in mind that Object Demons "bounce" wherever they want, when dropped or thrown, so there's no demonic ability necessary for all the cool stuff like throwing your sword up in the air and having it land in your hand at the right moment for a counter-thrust. I mean, if the demon and the guy happen to be getting along at the moment ...

Best,
Ron

[James_Nostack]

Peter, "Fast" might also work as a combat-related ability.  I don't have the books in front of me, but as I recall it lets you use the demon's Power in place of Stamina in combat.  With a sufficiently powerful demon, this frees the character to lower his Stamina a little and put points in other useful scores.  And you could probably "color" this ability to make it expert sword-play, and make the guy super-acrobatic, etc.

Ron's rollover method of course would work too, and possibly better, but it kind of requires a lot of rolls to go your way to reap the reward. 

[Ron Edwards]

Fast always helps. It's especially effective when the character concept entails a less-combat-like person enhanced significantly by a demon, but it's not bad for this application.

Another notion that's very good for weapons is Travel, for the weapon itself, utilized specifically when the person's been disarmed, defined as "why, look, it's right here!" In-game descriptions for this will vary greatly depending on the sorcery concepts for that game.

I knew I talked about a combat demon before ... ah! How did I miss this? is the name of the thread. Check out the bottom of the first page, continuing onto the second, and check out the threads I link to.

My points in that thread don't necessarily all apply here, as the demon concepts are different, but the design philosophy and rules-applications will be helpful.

Best,
Ron

[Roger]

How does something like Boost Cover work in a situation like this?  Could it be used to make him more combat effective, in addition to being better at all those other things Musketeers do, like being a snappy dresser?


Cheers,
Roger

[Ron Edwards]

Hi there,

The way to do that is for the demon simply to have the Cover ability and confer it to the person.

Best,
Ron

[Lisa Padol]

The way to do that is for the demon simply to have the Cover ability and confer it to the person.

Okay, you can do that, then. That came up as a theoretical question last night.

-Lisa

[Peter Nordstrand]

Thank you. This is very helpful. And Kristoffer will be most pleased. I especially likes the idea that this combat monster demon will insist on killing his opponents! I will make sure that Kristoffer gets how to use the rules to his advantage.

[Peter Nordstrand]

Alexandre d'Aubignac
Player: Jonas

Alexandre is an artist, inventor, and all-round genius. (Jonas has been reading a book about Leonardo daVinci.) Alexandre's father is the head Seneschal at the royal palace in Paris. The father spends most of his time at the palace, while the mother lives at the family estate outside Paris. Alexandre's demon is an imp, named Imp, whose purpose is to inspire his master to greatness, or so the master thinks.

Price: Alexandre has trouble finishing his projects. See Imp's Need, below.

Imp
Inconspicuous demon. When visible he looks like this. Need is to eat things that his master creates; such as drawings, sketches, portraits, innovations, etc. His desire is Humiliation (of others), I think.

Abilities: Spawn (the spawns are unable to agree about anything, and bicker constantly), Boost Cover (We talked about this, and in this case Boost is most appropriate ... the demon confers some inspired idea upon his master but leaves it to the master to handle the specifics).

Question: More demon ability problems. This time I am have real problems making up my mind. Jonas wants his demon to 1. give him information about peoples dreams and aspirations so that he can ingratiate himself with them by making flattering paintings or help them by inventing whatever contraption they need, and 2. tell him about peoples darkest secrets, and dishonorable acts.

Jonas does not want the demon to sneak around and physically spy on people. The demon "just knows" this stuff. Is Perception an acceptable way to handle this (one Perception: people's dark secrets, and one Perception: peoples dreams and aspirations), or does that violate the No Mind-Sense rule?

Alexandre, apparently, wants to know people's dreams and good sides, but the demon keeps feeding him information about their indiscretions and bad traits. This is problematic, since Alexandre wants to be a respectable artist and not a bloody blackmailer.
[/list]

Kicker: Imp tells Alexandre that he has a sister: Fanche (she is a prostitute, see Day of Dupes).  They share the same father; we don't yet know who the mother is.

Bang:  The obvious Bang is of course the revelation of who the mother is. I have a thousand ideas, but would love to hear yours ...

[Ron Edwards]

Hi there,

I think that would work fine as two separate Perception abilities. I might have suggested only one, but considering that the demon's behavior is so distinctly either-or, in terms of what it finds out, that making it literally two different things in mechanics terms will serve best.

I also think that the choice about who the mother is, is totally yours. I refuse to make any suggestions. This is one of several specific ways you get to enjoy being the GM. Or to put it differently, where I get to enjoy your GMing in a later actual-play post, and I don't want to diminish my enjoyment.

Great characters and demons!

Best,
Ron

[Peter Nordstrand]

Thank you for helping me out.

Cheers,

/Peter