Group Conflicts

[ffilz]

Hmm, so when you're sitting there looking at the 10 your opponent has, and the fact that none of your buddies currently can make a raise higher than a 10... Or do you not get to use the 10 to reverse all three blows?

In the two group conflicts in my run of Tower Creek, with only two PCs, what I ended up with for a back and forth was that the one or two times Sister Wilhelmina was able to reverse the blow, she just got her go right after doing so. But the PCs were able to put in good enough raises generally that she didn't get to reverse the blow twice in a row, so the order of gos just followed totally naturally (which really tells me, only use the highest roll goes first bit when you just really don't have a better way to do it). In both the game I played in and the game I ran, we also just used "go around the table" as an order, which works just fine (and makes it easier for folks to keep track of things).

Frank

[lumpley]

When I run Dogs I go strictly by best roll, always. I don't generally mention it out loud in demos - there's enough to absorb already - but that's how I run it. I know some other groups who do too.

I'm not a stickler about it when other people play because I don't think it's that important. But it's a rule you can easily and profitably use all the time, not a rule you should use only when pressed.

-Vincent

[dunlaing]

Vincent: Do you do:

• highest roll remaining goes next; or
• highest roll sets the turn order in the first round and then that turn order maintains for the rest of the conflict?

e.g. Ace, Bob, and Chet are in a conflict. Their highest rolls are Ace 15, Bob 14, Chet 13. Ace goes, then Bob, then Chet. In the new round, Ace's highest remaining roll is 10, Bob's is 14, and Chet's is 4. Is the new round Ace, Bob, Chet or Bob, Ace, Chet?

[lumpley]

Highest roll remaining.

Highest roll raises; a bunch of people see.
Reassess highest roll, excluding the person who's already raised.
Highest roll raises; a bunch of people see.
Reassess highest roll, excluding the two people who've already raised.
etc.

Next round, repeat, etc.

Occasionally I'll be like, "did you already go this round?" but usually it's easy to remember.

-Vincent

[ffilz]

A followup on this, getting back to reversing the blow:

NPC has first raise, raises 12
PC's see 12
A has next raise, 10
NPC reverses the blow with a 10
B has next raise, 8
NPC uses his 10 to reverse the blow again, does he still keep that 10?
C has next raise, 7
Does the NPC re-use that 10 a third time?

On a different note:
I assume someone who just reversed the blow may count his reserved die in determining best roll
Now here's another question: MUST the character who just reversed the blow use that die in the next see? One would normally expect him to want to use a pretty good die to reverse a blow, but what if the first raise is pretty low?

Frank

[lumpley]

Whenever you reverse the blow, you keep the die for your next thing you do, whether it's a raise or a see.

Yes, that guy keeps reversing the blow with the same 10.

But yes, he'll have to raise with it sooner or later - sooner, because yes, that 10 counts toward his best roll.

Okay, your second question:

I raise you with a 3.

You reverse the blow with a 3. You keep your 3.

I have an excellent die showing, a 10, say, that I didn't use to raise for reasons of my own. You have some pretty good dice showing, a couple of 6s. You'd like to raise me with your two 6s so I don't reverse the blow.

You can't! You have to use your 3 as part of your raise.

Why didn't you reverse the blow with a 6 to begin with, if you wanted to use it for your next raise?

Same goes for seeing. Yep, you have to use that 3.

-Vincent

[ffilz]

Ok, makes sense, and that's pretty much all how I would read it. Notice that I had the NPC already use his go for the round in the use the 10 for multiple sees... Of course once the round is over, he now probably gos first in the next round, and has to use the 10. Presumablygthe rest of the players will be looking real hard for another trait to pull in, or to escalate so they can muster better than a 10 raise...

So obviously in a group conflict, you want to take into consideration who is going to get the next raise in reversing the blow, and use a big die if you're going to need it for a future see or raise.

Frank

[jburneko]

Hello,

This discussion has been extremely useful.  I do have one question remaining about narration for a group of NPCs that are all bundled together.  As the GM I have my big combined dice pool.  It's my turn to raise so I put it two sixes for a twelve raise.  Is it fair to then describe what three seperate NPCs are doing to get "affect" three different dogs with that raise.

So it looks like this:

GM: "I raise with 12.  Player 1 the big bruser this throwing a chair at you.  Player 2 the small sneaky guy is coming up behind you with a knife.  Oh, and player three, the sharp shooter in the tree is taking a shot.  All of you see my 12."

Jesse

[coffeestain]

Jesse,

Absolutely!  I do that all the time.  By the same token, if I have one NPC shooting a bunch of Dogs, I'll raise something like, "He fires a hail of bullets in your direction" which is a raise against all of them.  Those that don't see get hit by a stray piece of lead.

Regards,
Daniel

[dunlaing]

Those that don't see get hit by a stray piece of lead.

???
Those that take the blow get hit by a stray piece of lead. Those that don't see do not get hit by a stray piece of lead, but do lose the stakes.

[Valamir]

Those that don't see get hit by a stray piece of lead.

???
Those that take the blow get hit by a stray piece of lead. Those that don't see do not get hit by a stray piece of lead, but do lose the stakes.

Actually, to be perfectly pedantic, those that Take the Blow take Fallout which could be narrated as taking a stray piece of lead, but also could be any number of other things.

[coffeestain]

I can be even more pedantic by suggesting that the stakes may have been "Do I get hit by a stray piece of lead?"

Instead, I'll just say that both of you are correct.  I should have said "block".  I should also have stated that this is a specific example of a general issue that still holds true.

Regards,
Daniel

[dunlaing]

cool. It's a pretty important part of Dogs though, that if you Give, you don't take the last blow.