Ok I 've read my Sorcerer books and joined The Forge what comes next?

[Jason13]

Hi Everyone,

Please bear with me as this is my first post. 

I have been roleplaying since the tender age of 11 in 1979, but I have only recently in the last six months or so started to develop an interest in Indie roleplaying games.  In this respect I am light years ahead of where my gaming group is right now.  We meet once a week and usually play Eberron for D&D, this is ok but I am inceasingly growing a little frustrated with the system and would like to move the group towards Sorcerer.

I got my books my books six months ago on Ebay (sorry Ron but I will buy the PDF supplements!) I have the main rulebook, Sword and Sorcery, Sex and Sorcery and The Sorcerers Soul.  I have read and re-read them extensively and love them all.  I have now joined The Forge for some support, so the next step is to get a game started.

Now all my group is firmly entrenched in the Gamist/Simulation mindset, but I would like to coax them towards a more Narrativist way of playing that I am sure they would enjoy given time.  My problem is that one of my players will be quite hard to get into this, he is really focused on d20 and does not seem that into anything else.  We have had extensive discussions on the games we would like to run and play during the course of this year and he seems reluctant to even consider Sorcerer.  Does anyone have any ideas about weaning players away from d20 into something more fulfilling?

Some ideas that I have had so far are as follows...

A short 3 - 5 session campaign set in the modern day, to concentrate attention onto the beauty and simplicity of this system and focus on the story instead of the setting.  Probably centered on a small coven of Sorcerers face with a common threat, to make it really eay for the players to write their first kickers.

A series of one off vignettes based on the writings of a Sorcerous killer on death row.  The letters are written to each of the players to whom the killer has a connection (the kicker) and plays out as a spotlight on that character with other players in supporting roles.
Any comments would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

Jason

[Ron Edwards]

Hello, and welcome!

I don't have any problem with people buying Sorcerer books used, on sale, at E-bay, or anything else like that. Seems to me that the books are therefore finding good homes, and I've already made whatever money I'll make from them anyway. I don't see it as "stealing" a potential sale, not at all. So good on you for getting them, however you did.

Unfortunately, my reply to your "weaning" question is pretty pessimistic. It's not possible to change what other people want, and although I don't know your group, I'll betcha that at least a couple of them are very comfortable with their mastery of the rules and setting for Eberron. If this is the case, they may resist learning or even paying quality attention to anything presented as an alternative. It's easy to "prove" a game sucks when one deliberately shuts out the possibility that it's (a) different and (b) works.

As a slightly more positive but equally pessimistic point, even without this kind of social/intellectual resistance, the folks who are comfortable with the goals and procedures may simply like them enough to be disinterested in whatever Sorcerer or any other game might offer. Again - you cannot change what people like and want.

So my advice is not to try to change or wean the group as a whole, but just focus on a couple other people in it who you think are most likely already to share your interest in the goals/procedures of Sorcerer. Run it as a side activity, and as you suggest, for a limited time.

If that's not possible, maybe because people aren't used to "dividing the group" or find that upsetting for some reason, then you might have to bite the bullet and anticipate that some of the players will be actively unable to contribute and interact, even if they're present and even if they're talking a lot.

I like your second idea, but your first one is perhaps too traditional in the sense of "you're a group, here is your problem, solve the problem." Sorcerer works best when you as GM respond aggressively to the issues and crises that they, the players, provide.

Best,
Ron

[Jason13]

Hi Ron,

Thanks for the welcome and the speedy reply.

I think that you are probably right, the player in question is a good friend and I wanted to bring him over to the light side.  That said I used to run a pretty regular Over the Edge game about 10 years ago for a lot of different groups and everyone loved it except this guy.  It's a shame he just does not get non traditional rpg's.  Ironically he is usually the GM in this particular group and I have tried to explain the concepts of Players authoring the game which you would think would intrigue him at least....ah well you can lead a horse to water.  I think I will set up a second flexible group to play more indie games and that also means I can get to playing twice a week!

I am glad you liked the killer on death row idea.  As usually happens when I start to think in Sorcerer terms (some reprogramming is required!) some good possible kickers and bangs really leap out at you.  Relationships between the prisoner and PC's may be friendly or even familial.  Maybe he is completely innocent and being framed by a very devious demon or perhaps he has a vital secret to pass on before they flip the switch. 

I think I will spend some more time forming this idea and maybe start a new thread in a few days time when I have more details.  Do you think that would be a good subject for discussion?

Regards

Jason

[Glendower]

Ironically he is usually the GM in this particular group and I have tried to explain the concepts of Players authoring the game which you would think would intrigue him at least....ah well you can lead a horse to water.

This isn't surprising, actually.  It happens quite a bit.  People who are used to the traditional role of GM being sole director find the concept of Player Authoring terrifying.  It's like the monkeys taking over the zoo! 

Traditional methods focus on the GM being sole author, so they have a nice set plan for the evening, all written down and ready to roll out for the players to passively experience.  Player Authoring would break that game style into a million million pieces. 

For many, Game Master = guy in charge, guy who decides what happens.  That's the mentality, and I'll tell you, it's probably the hardest mindset to convince otherwise.  Your plan of an alternate group is a way better tactic. 

[Larry L.]

Welcome to the Forge, Jason!

It's worth pointing out that if everyone is having enthusiastic fun playing the current game (as opposed to resignedly pretending to have fun for the sake of getting along) then nothing is wrong with the game. Or is it your desires for what should be fun don't jibe with those of the other players? Review the definition of Typhoid Mary in the glossary, and then Don't be that guy!

Try to get out of the old "the GM comes down from on high with a complete concept and premise, and the players kneel and just accept it" mode of thinking. Bouncing ideas around on the Forge is cool, but ultimately you should be bouncing this stuff off your prospective players. If they're like, "Huh. Yeah, I guess that's okay," maybe it's not their cup of tea. But if they're like, "Yeah! But it would be even cooler if...!" then you know you've got someone who can enjoy author-driven roleplaying.

Keep in mind you do not have to limit yourself to "experienced role-players" for players. If you've got some non-gamer friends who seem interested when you explain your ideas to them, you can totally recruit them, and they won't have any pesky ideas of the "right" way to roleplay.

The death row thing is a pretty sweet take on the old "patron" cliche.

[Jason13]

Hi Larry and Glendower,

Great to hear from you both.

There is no intrinsic problem with our current game and I certainly do not fall into a Typhoid Mary category!  The current game is good fun and everyone at the table has been gaming together for a very long time.  We agreed to play the game democratically and it has been played for almost 7 months now with no problems at all.  However change can sometimes be good and it is possible to enjoy more than one kind of game! 

I created this thread to find out if anyone has come accross similar resistance at their own gaming table and if anyone had any strategies for introducing players into Sorcerer.  We are all posting on the Adept Press forum so I guess we all agree the game is great. 

All I want to do is give my players the best gaming experience that I can when it is my turn to run a game.  At the moment I cannot really bounce this around everyone in my current group as one player seems reluctant to even entertain the idea of trying anything so radical.  I know the other players would be open minded and give it a good go but I do not want to split the group up or upset a very good friend.  I think that the best solution is to carry on the traditional roleplaying at the weekends and run a more radical game during the week with some of the current group and maybe some new faces.

All I have to do now is find some time and some players.  But I was listening to some Sons of Kryos Podcasts earlier today.  Jeff and Judd were talking about cross pollonisation between gaming groups and it occured to me that I have played with the same group of people for a few years.  Maybe it would help if I mixed a little more with other gamers and I guess that's another reason that I joined The Forge.

Thanks for the replies

Regards

Jason

[Judd]

Welcome to the Forge, Jason.

Please post in the Actual Play forum and letu sknow how your first games of Sorcerer go.

And if you'd like to talk about your first games of Sorcerer and how they went for your group, me and Jeff would be happy to meet with you over Skype and discuss it.

PM me if you are interested.

[Jason13]

Hi Judd,

Great to hear from you.

I have PM'd you regarding Sons of Kryos.

As soon as I assemble my second group to play Sorcerer and some of the other indie games I like, I will start a thread covering our first Sorcerer sessions in Actual Play.  Thanks for the advice and support.

Regards

Jason