[Star Wars] Did the Plot Run Off?

[Larry L.]

And I'm wondering, how dysfunctional is this type of play?

What contra said. Sounds like a one-time snafu.*

I was hoping to explain in detail why D20 sucks for what you're doing, but the nastiest thing I can say in this case is, "The system doesn't provide cues for the GM and the players to communicate where they want the story to go now," which means you'll just have to do it above the table and talk about it.**


*Hey, "one-time SNAFU" is an oxymoron, ain't it?

**If your GM were familiar with Forge terminology, you could have turned to him and said, "Use the Force, Luke!" and that would have been a hilariously bad Forge pun as well as a succinct way to communicate that you don't actually want a decision right now.

[ErrathofKosh]

A lot of this is illusionist play, from my understanding, and comparable to what most gaming falls under.  I'd still like to know what you would have wanted, or how you would have ran the game.  You didn't exactly answer the question in your last post, though you did make mention of it.  It's not about what Brian wants or likes to do, though his input is important.  It's about what you want.  Does the lack of input bother you?  Do you want more input as a player?  Do you want things to change, or be different, or something?

Well, there is the matter of what I am used to.  My character is where I used to being able to give input into the game.  I enjoy watching my character change and grow. I'm also used to unraveling the plot that Brian has set up, because he is talented enough to make it very interesting.  And I enjoy this too.  So, normally there is no problem and probably very little dysfunction, as I realize now.

But, the incident that I detailed at the beginning of the thread has made me stop and think.  Now, that I've mulled it over, I realize that while I'm content with playing in this way, I'd also like to step out a little and try something else.  I enjoy character-oriented games, but, perhaps there is something out there that approaches it from a different angle.   

I think I'd like to go from finding out what it feels like to be a Jedi/smuggler/etc. in Star Wars and begin exploring how a Jedi deals with the loss of someone close to him, or what a smuggler does when he has to comprise his morals to save a job.  I want in a little deeper, but I'm not sure how to go about it.  Anyway, I appreciate everyone's responses, they are helping me.

[Callan S.]

or what a smuggler does when he has to comprise his morals to save a job.

Do you mean stuff like
A. Along with the usual stuff, a gangester threatens him into smuggling some drugs that really screw people up. He delivers them and then we see what he does after that.
or
B. Along with the usual stuff, a gangster threatens him to try and force him to smuggle some of these drugs. We then see whether the character accepts or refuses, despite the circumstances.

The game structures/mechanics need to be quite different, IMO.

[simon_hibbs]

It can be realy difficult to run a game on the spot, with no preperation. Having said that, it's the GM's responsibility to draw in the players/characters and pace the game.

I played a game at a games convention a while back where we actualy never got to the plot. As players there was no way for us to know what the game was about, and we went to town on some stuff the GM improvised to 'give the setting more life'. I talekd to a friend who played the same scenario with a different GM and we never even met the character that introduces the party to the main adventure. Instead we spent 2 hours essentialy doing fairly dull preperation and scouting work for a situation the name never got to.

Ways this situation could have been avoided: Your character could notice that the thugs are wearing crew fatigues bearing the name of a ship he once worked on. One of the other PCs could have seen one of these guys with another NPC he knows - maybe this NPC friend knows more? Another character does somethign similar - recognises one of the thugs, recognises the bad guy that got away, etc, etc. The next day your character happens to see the bad guy that got away somewhere doing something nefarious. An NPC sees the PCs win the combat and says "Hey, you guys are handy in a fight, fancy some work?" - perhaps this NPC is involved in the plot somehow... etc, etc.

This is all the GM's responsibility, you can't expect the players to always pick up on everything. If you put the information square in their face, or give them a direct lead to follow and a reason to followit and the _still_ walk away then it's the player's fault but that's usualy pretty rare among friends.


Simon Hibbs

[Larry L.]

Hi Simon,

It can be realy difficult to run a game on the spot, with no preperation. Having said that, it's the GM's responsibility to draw in the players/characters and pace the game.

Really? Why?

Maybe he has that responsibility. Maybe the other players do. It sort of depends what everyone participating agrees upon.

Why do you need a GM, for that matter? (Mostly, this is a rhetorical question.)

[Callan S.]

I don't think GM or player have to have this responsibility, when it comes to in game choices.

Simon, I think your describing another sort of illusionism. Where the GM snake charms the players into following 'the plot' with the choice they get. While in another style of play, the group only presents a scope of choice which leads to what they want the game to focus on. For example, a narrow scope of choice could be the GM saying "Okay, they run away. You DO run after them. Do you run fast and furious or carefully trail them?". Yes, you can feel the hand of force in that you DO have to run after them. But at the same time, it's explicit that there isn't supposed to be a choice about that (scene framing). Snake charming hides the fact that you don't really have a choice, because nothing happens if you don't run after them.

If you don't want illusionist play, then go with the choice the players make (the stay at the bar? Okay, it's star wars crossed with cheers). If you don't like all the choices they could make ("I start breaking into a candy machine"), explicity narrow the scope of choice down as much as you like.

It's traditional roleplay culture, it's asserted the player should have full scope choices, all the time. That just doesn't have to be the case.

[ErrathofKosh]

or what a smuggler does when he has to comprise his morals to save a job.

Do you mean stuff like
A. Along with the usual stuff, a gangester threatens him into smuggling some drugs that really screw people up. He delivers them and then we see what he does after that.
or
B. Along with the usual stuff, a gangster threatens him to try and force him to smuggle some of these drugs. We then see whether the character accepts or refuses, despite the circumstances.

The game structures/mechanics need to be quite different, IMO.

After some thought, I think I'd be more interested in choice "A" above.  While choice "B" is engaging stuff, it seems to me that once we discover his choice, the character has been explored by that particular situation and we can move on.  But, having the charcter deliver the drugs and then looking at the choices he makes after he does that seems to be much richer in the possibilities. 

This particular scenario reminds me of the reverse of The Train Job from Firefly, the TV show.  The characters steal some drugs being delivered to a town in desperate need of them, without knowing exactly what they are taking.  But, after two of  them get stuck in town for awhile they find out what they have done.  The rest of episode is about how they react.  Quite engaging stuff.  That's what I'd like to do.

As for the discussion of GM options and snake-charming, I think that I agree with Callan here.  My style of GMing is much different from Brian's, I fly by the seat of my pants with little difficulty.  But, then again, telling a particular story is never really part of my agenda.  I usually enjoy just watching the players explore the world I have in my head.  Of course, this usually means my "campaigns" are shorter than Brian's.  His are like novels, mine are more like short stories...