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275647 Posts in 27717 Topics by 4285 Members Latest Member: - Jason DAngelo Most online today: 112 - most online ever: 565 (October 17, 2020, 02:08:06 PM)
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Author Topic: Goal Sniping.  (Read 11919 times)
TonyLB
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« Reply #15 on: March 15, 2006, 08:09:37 PM »

>sigh<  I have got to do more independent play-testing on my next product.  There are all these little things that I know, which made it into the book, sorta, but which I only realize after the fact need to be put in all caps, double bold somewhere.  Sorry about that, Jesse.
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Zamiel
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« Reply #16 on: March 15, 2006, 10:52:03 PM »

Nope.  Winners distribute their own stakes.  So if I staked two debt, I'm the one who distributes those two debt no matter who resolves the conflict.

Note for future: Probably a bit that needs some more clarification and possibly an extended textual walk-through with commentary. Conflict Resolution is the stickiest part of the Capes mechanics.
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Capes: This Present Darkness, Dragonstaff
Adam Biltcliffe
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« Reply #17 on: March 16, 2006, 06:23:39 AM »

Yeah, only when you're splitting away from the third side you don't even have to leave one die.  It's your debt, your dice, you can pull them out from under someone if you want to.  'course, if they've staked their own debt on your third side then that's a different can of worms.

As a side note, this seems confusing to me. Are you saying that the two initial sides are somehow "special", in that they always have to have a die attached to them, while sides created later enjoy no such protection?

adam
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TonyLB
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« Reply #18 on: March 16, 2006, 06:28:23 AM »

As a side note, this seems confusing to me. Are you saying that the two initial sides are somehow "special", in that they always have to have a die attached to them, while sides created later enjoy no such protection?
Yes, that's what I'm saying.
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Hans
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« Reply #19 on: March 16, 2006, 07:04:11 AM »

[Oh, holy crap!  No, I did not know that!  I thought if you were going to split off to a third side you had to do it WHEN you Staked the Debt.  I didn't realize that you could take the debt you have already staked on other Turns and Pages and just go, "Neaner, new side."  Can I do that repeatedly?  Like if a player claims that third side, can I do it again and make a fourth side?

Dude, that might totally fix the problem.  Or at least reduce the damage done by it.

Jesse

Jesse, this is a great technique, but it only reduces the damage, just to warn you.  In most circumstances, you are still going to have to fight tooth and nail to get your third side up above the other two to prevent the conflict from resolving that page.  It sounds like the particular situation you were describing was one where a LOT of debt was staked by you, but in most circumstances that may not be the case.  I have seen people try to do this, and its not easy. 

Tony: This brings up a question related to what Jesse is describing:

Player 1 has 3 debt staked on Side 1, with three dice on them.
Player 2 has 2 debt staked on Side 1, with two dice on them.
Side 1 also has its free die.

Now, lets say Player 2 suddenly realizes that Player 1 is going to screw him over.  Player 2 wants to split off and form his own side.  Which of the following things can he do?

* Stake another debt, split one of his die, then split all of his debt to a third side (certain this works)
* Take his own two debt, without further staking, and make his own side with those two dice. (almost certain this works)
* Take only one of his debt, and start a new side with one die, leaving one of his debt staked on Side 1 (almost certain this works, although it seems stupid to leave your debt and its associated dice on side 1)
* Take all the debt staked, two of his, and three of his opponents, and create a third side with five dice and five debt. (not certain this works, since he is moving someone elses debt)
* Take five dice and his own two debt, leaving 3 debt and the one free die on Side 1.  (pretty certain this doesn't work, since there would be more dice than debt on the new side)
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TonyLB
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« Reply #20 on: March 16, 2006, 08:18:43 AM »

Your intuition is right on.  First three yes, last two no.

What is not clear in the rules (mea culpa!) is which dice you're allowed to split away.  Can you split away the six and the five, even if the other guy did "most" of the work on rolling them?

When we've got "strange bedfellows" situations that have not yet schismed my group tends to stack dice on the debt itself.  We've never had a situation where (to the best of my knowledge) it ended up mattering which dice were on which debt tokens, but we've occasionally had some chuckles and grins with people saying things like "Oh, no!  I'm not rolling up that die!  I'm rolling up this die!  Nice try though!" 

That could theoretically be an important issue, but in my groups I've never yet seen is practically become an important issue.  Far more often, when two people are both staked debt-in on a conflict, they get so excited by the intersection of ideals ("You got your Justice in my Obsession!  You got your Obsession on my Justice!  Hey ... Justice and Obsession taste great together!") that you couldn't force them apart with a pry-bar.  If you find it coming up, I'm afraid you really will have to house-rule a solution (like the one above) because the formal rules give you no guidance.
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Hans
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« Reply #21 on: March 16, 2006, 08:29:53 AM »

Your intuition is right on.  First three yes, last two no.

Thanks.  I will use the house rule, I think, that as long as the debt and dice match up AFTER the split (i.e. no more dice than debt) it doesn't matter which dice you take, because I like the idea of taking all the 6's when the third side forms and cackling over it with malice.
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* Want to know what your fair share of paying to feed the hungry is? http://www3.sympatico.ca/hans_messersmith/World_Hunger_Fair_Share_Number.htm
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