Rules for the First Thoughts forum

[Ron Edwards]

This forum is for working through early drafts and posing design questions about the fundamental concepts for new games. If you're starting a thread here, then it's very important for you to make specific inquiries and to raise specific points - don't post a ton of material and ask "what do you think," because it won't help much.

If you're a little stuck on just how to post, then it's always good to reference your own play experiences which led you to this particular game idea ... so yes, threads here can easily be actual-play discussion posts too.

One last point: don't post long excerpts from your game texts. Instead, include links to documents.

Here are some sites to check out as well, which are closely allied with the goals of this forum:
Socratic Design
Story Games forum

Any questions about what this forum is for? Ask them here in this thread, or ask me by private message.

[FinalFantasy7]

Hello. I'm new to this website and I find myself to be somewhat confused. Is this a website where RPs are created and played? Or is this more of a place where you can recieve help in creating one or advertise a game?

I'm sure these questions are answered somewhere here, but I'm alittle lost trying to travel the site.

[Ron Edwards]

Hi there,

I'm the site content moderator for the general forums. Welcome to the Forge.

The site's for discussion, not play. You won't find on-line play right here, although some folks organize it through the Connections forum.

The topic is person-to-person dialogue-based role-playing, what a lot of people call "pen and paper" or "table-top" play.

The main goal of the site is to help people publish their games in the way best suited for them, but that also involves a lot of discussion of play experiences.

The best place to learn more are the sticky threads at the top of the Site Discussion forum (this one). Please send me a private message (click on my username, then find the option) if you have any more questions.

Best, Ron

[Ron Edwards]

This forum always makes me happy. To people showing up: thanks for being here, thanks for posting, and thanks for being willing to enter into discussions.

Best, Ron

[Justin Berman]

Is opening a discussion about ideas for a system allowed anywhere here? That is, could I start a topic dedicated to exploring the potentially varied differing ways to handle such a thing as freeform magic, or would I need to ask about my specific ideas?

[Ron Edwards]

For this forum, please focus on your specific ideas. For the more general topic, you should discuss it (raise questions, etc) by posting about your real-life experiences in the Actual Play forum. In other words, general or highly conceptual topics are welcome, but you need to provide examples from your real experiences, so what you are talking about is as clear as possible.

Best, Ron

[Steven Stewart]

I understand that if I have questions about this forum, this is the place to post, so I hope I got that right. New to the Forge and to the ideas of the Forge, but hearing Podcasts and interviews I became very excited, but now find myself at a loss on where to get started. I understand that this community has done a lot of leg work and theorey on game design, specifically on independent game design and story telling.

My original post was long, too long, so I will just try to sum it up in one point and hopefully no-one will be offended, "Is there a dummy's guide or primer "on Game Design and Theory?" hopefully specifically that servers as a good starting point for understanding narrative games like Polaris v. "traditional games" and addresses the issues of "play now v. backstory" and some of the other things I see in people's posts on Actual Play and in this forum, to get those us coming to this site from a more traditional background in gaming?

Cheers for now,

[Ron Edwards]

Hi Steven,

There's an Articles link at the top of the page you can follow to a number of essays. I recommend you to "The Provisional Glossary," which despite its name is not just a list of terms, but begins with a short, non-tautological explanation of the basic concepts.

If you look at the GNS and RPG Theory forums, which are closed for posting, each one begins with a sticky that includes many links to others' summaries and continuing discussions. I especially recommend the site called "anyway."

Best, Ron

[Ricky Donato]

While scouring the Forge and related sites I found a bunch of links that are useful for thinking about your design:

Big 3
Alt. 3
Power 19 pt. 1
Power 19 pt. 2
Structured Game Design
Troy's 12-step Process
Mike Miller's Design Process
Design Process from Ron Edwards and others

[Ricky Donato]

And of course, the same day that I post the above, Troy adds another useful post to his blog: When is a Concept Ready to be a Draft?

[Sovem]

Hi Ron,

I've seen you say many times not to post to older threads, but I can't find any examples of a guidline. What, precisely, qualifies as a thread too old to post to?

Thanks,
John

[Ron Edwards]

Hi there,

The rules in the Site Discussion thread (sticky at the top of that forum) say that a thread is too old if it off the first page or three weeks old, whichever comes first.

I have altered that rule in the Actual Play forum by saying that any thread in the first three pages of the forum is OK to post to.

First Thoughts moves awfully quickly too, so I may consider opening that up a bit, but for now, the old rule stands.

And as always, the specific publisher forums have their own rules as laid down by their owners (I don't moderate there). You'll usually see their rules posted at the top of those forums.

Best, Ron

[andrew_kenrick]

I'm not entirely sure this is even an issue, but is there such a thing as too many first thoughts or too many designs that one person can be bouncing around?

Each time I come to the First Thoughts forum with my own design questions, it seems to be with a different project idea. This is not to say that my previous projects have died a death (far from it, in most cases) and I've moved on to the next big thing, but it's more symptamatic of the way my brain fires creatively.

So, is it polite to pose questions about one project at a time and to try to rein in my wandering mind, or doesn't it really matter how many designs I have on the go (and post about)?

[Ron Edwards]

Hi Andrew,

Everyone's process is different, so I'm reluctant to impose strictures of this kind. On the average, and referring only to posting threads and participating in them, it seems to me that people benefit more from concentrating on one "first thought" at a time. Again, I'm not talking about their actual heads or notebooks or hard drives. I'm talking about forum use.

But as I say, that's only on average based on what I've seen here. So there's no forum rule about it. I have, in the past, PMed people to advise them to slow down a little, only because scattershotting a bunch of threads is a common internet tactic to try to fit in, and it becomes apparent when the person's thoughts become scattered in some cases. That's only suggestion, not moderating, and it's based on what I see in the actual post content rather than on any hard-and-fast "only so many threads" number.

As a related point, I do want to say that First Thoughts really should be limited to actual game ideas in their earliest stages. If you've ever playtested the game, even once, all your subsequent posting should go into Playtesting, no matter what. A couple of recent threads have convinced me we really need to stick with that more carefully.

Best, Ron

[Eric Schwenke]

Hey, I'm new.  I'm not sure if this is the right place to ask about this, but her it goes:

I've been working on Troy's "Power 19," but even after consulting the "Provisional Glossary" I am confused over what is meant by "Color."  Could someone give examples of Color as it appears in some of the more well known games?  The impression that I get is that it is largely a setting issue, so since I'm working o a "Purity-of-System" rules-set does that mean that I shouldn't wory about Color until I get to creating settings for the rules to work with?