Goals with no players

[Hans]

More a question about how to create good stories with Capes than a question about the rules.  Can you place a goal for a character that has no player? 

Example, we have three characters with players in the scene: Reed Richards, Annihilus (love that groovy armor), Johnny Storm.  Sue Storm has been narrated as being present in the scene, even though no one has spent a story token to use her. 

Can a player play "Goal: Sue Storm holds the N-Zone gateway open with her force field"?  Note that their are no PLAYED characters mentioned in the goal.  If this goal can be played, who could veto it, everyone?

I suppose you could rewrite it somewhat as "Event: Sue Storm holds the N-Zone gateway open with her force field", but that means she WILL hold it open.  The Goal has the implication that she may succeed or fail.  I suppose you could also create "Event: Sue Storm attempts to hold the N-Zone gateway open with her force field."  But this sort of implies she doesn't do anything to the gateway until the Event resolves.  If the player really wants to ask "Will Sue hold the gate open, or will she fail?", the goal wording hits this the best.

Of course, the odd thing in the above example is that no one can describe Sue doing something on this goal without using one of their own abilities, but that seems reasonable as well.  Reed: "Sue, use your force field to hold the gateway open!" (uses Super Intellect ability).  Annihilus: "You fool (ZARRP, sound of Cosmic Power Rod), your wife will never succeed!" (uses Cosmic Power Rod ability).  etc.

[drnuncheon]

More a question about how to create good stories with Capes than a question about the rules.  Can you place a goal for a character that has no player?

I don't see why not.  A character can be present in a scene without a character sheet - all it means is that they have no power to influence the scene.  I expect we'll be doing a lot of that in our Hellblazer/Dresden style mystery game - one or more of the "main characters" might be present, but their players might be actively playing other characters.

J

[Hans]

I don't see why not.  A character can be present in a scene without a character sheet - all it means is that they have no power to influence the scene.  I expect we'll be doing a lot of that in our Hellblazer/Dresden style mystery game - one or more of the "main characters" might be present, but their players might be actively playing other characters.

I didn't either, and I think I will encourage my own group to use them.  But the very important question of veto is one that I think we should answer.  Personally, I am going to suggest we allow these goals, but that for veto purposes we treat them as events (that is, anyone can veto), as opposed to goals (where conceivably no one could veto).   

That is only in the case of goals that truly have no played character involved.  If I had written, in the example I mentioned, "Goal: Sue Storm forces Annihilus through the N-Zone gateway using her force field," then conceivably it is Annihilus who could veto, since the Goal could easily be rewritten "Goal: Annihilus prevents Sue from forcing him through the gateway."

[Zamiel]

I didn't either, and I think I will encourage my own group to use them.  But the very important question of veto is one that I think we should answer.  Personally, I am going to suggest we allow these goals, but that for veto purposes we treat them as events (that is, anyone can veto), as opposed to goals (where conceivably no one could veto).   

That is only in the case of goals that truly have no played character involved.  If I had written, in the example I mentioned, "Goal: Sue Storm forces Annihilus through the N-Zone gateway using her force field," then conceivably it is Annihilus who could veto, since the Goal could easily be rewritten "Goal: Annihilus prevents Sue from forcing him through the gateway."

I suspect this is the most reasonable approach. I doubt that you'll see a lot of vetoing of "third-party" Conflicts in actual play, though, since they are psychologically more malleable than the more "run of the mill" Conflicts.

What I mean by that is that there is clearly no Character in the foreground pursuing the Goal, so its doubly clear that narration is the key to moving that character around. My gut says that folks see that you have to do so, see there's no one you're "stepping on the toes of" and proceed to go to with gusto.

I need to see if I can't wrangle more Conflicts like this into play and check my gut.