World of Condemn Campaign Setting help needed

[inchoates]

[Anders Larsen]

Hi and welcome to The Forge!

It seems like you are very serious about this, and have some strong ideas. But this 'highly detailed' approach you have concern me a little, because you risk losing focus of what really is important in the setting. Why do you feel it is necessary to have all these details? Is this really important to get an interesting game?

Prepare to immerse yourself in a time when quick wit and a sharp tongue can do as much, or more, than a pistol and rapier…when skills and knowledge are more valuable than gold or gunpowder.
Prepare to immerse yourself in a city that is a haven for heretics and fanatics alike…a breeding ground for conspiracy and larceny…where the praxis of dark sorceries are veiled under the guise of absolution or hidden in the shadows of the Obelus.

This seems to be the central concepts of the game (together with the inquisition movement), so this is really where the focus should be. Stuff like maps, economy and geography is really not important for a game of conspiracy, inquisition, 'quick wit and a sharp tongue' etc.

If you can bring these concepts to the foreground, it can very well become an interesting game.

 - Anders

[inchoates]

Alas...you are correct. The focus of the game will be those things...but my intent is to provide as complete a vision as possible to as to free the gamemaster from having to design the world or think it up on the fly. I could just drop all of the extra details and focus on the story, but I really want to create something that, to my knowledge, has not really been done. I guess that is why I put out this call for help so I can actually get somewhere on this. Thanks for your input...it is appreciated as I do tend to lose focus at times...so I will revist what I am trying to do. Maybe I just need to restructure. Design the core concepts and add to it with all the other details I have planned...

[Anders Larsen]

Ok, What I say is only my opinion from what I could read from your post, so you should not react too drastic on it. I wouldn't want you to rewrite everything or drop all your cool ideas.

So to clarify: It is not that I think you should completely drop things like map or description of economy, you should just be careful that you don't use too much time on it - especially in the beginning of the design process.

What you should do is ask yourself: "What do I think is really cool about this setting?", "What feeling do I want in the setting?", "What will the character typically do in this game; what is the typical story told?" etc., to get to what you really want for this game. After that you can try to find ways to  give these concepts a strong presence in the setting. And when you feel you have something that really give the gaming experience you want, then you can add all the details.

 - Anders

[David Berg]

my intent is to provide as complete a vision as possible to as to free the gamemaster from having to design the world or think it up on the fly.

Hey, as long as you can do whatever else you need to do, that sounds like a totally worthy goal to me.  Providing a complete vision down to a fine level of detail not only saves the GM work, it helps safeguard your world against GM butchery. 

As a GM, I like to make a lot of stuff up as I go, but if I were ever handed a perfectly detailed world, I'd probably run it unaltered just to enjoy exploring it the same way the players do.

If you really care enough about the details to do work on them, and you feel that work enhances your game, I say go for it.

I am working on a similar project, in which I've tried to start with real-world physics and then tweak them just a little bit for my geography.  Real-world economic and social tendencies are also being followed to the best of my ability, again with slight twists.  There is a huge downside to working this way, but I think the upside has been worth it thus far.

Downside 1: I often come up with cool ideas that I have to abandon because they don't make sense within the logical constraints of the world (mostly, they'd change the world in ways I don't want)

Downside 2: as I simply don't know everything relevant about the way real thermodynamics and human history has worked, I spend a lot of time investigating, which is not really my favorite pastime (fortunately, I have a co-designer who is into that)

Downside 3: the "approval" process for new ideas is slow, so the development of the game itself is slow (on and off for about 3.5 years now)

Upside: I'm immensely satisfied with all of the material that passes all the tests and makes it into "canon"

[David Berg]

Inchoates,

My own comments should not be taken as a refutation of Anders' -- I agree with just about everything he has said.  It seems to me that a major question is where you are at in the design process.  I think I am assuming that you are further along in developing the central point and focus of your game than Anders is assuming.

[stefoid]

Hi.

warning - gross generalization follows:

In forge-speak, what you are presenting is called a 'canonical setting'.  I wouldnt say its frowned apon here exactly, but viewed more as something that a might distract you from what the focus of your game is supposed to be.  Or even as a replacement for having a specific focus at all, like you just wanna create this cool world for players to explore and have fun with.

Forgerites tend to want the setting to be about the situation that players will find themselves in, rather than the details of this is town X and it has such and such a population and you can buy a horse here for 32 bucks.  'situation' is like the bit about rapiers and wits that was highlighted in a previous post.

To put it another way, a canonical setting is filled with facts or data.  Embedded somewhere in there will be stuff that can drive a game - plot hooks or whatever you want to call them.  Active stuff.  The fact that a horse costs 32 bucks inst going to drive a character or a game unless the character is a horse trader I suppose.  Its passive data taking up space and hiding the juciy stuff.  Same with a settings 'history'.  Sort out what historical stuff you are presenting is dead data and what is going to actively drive the game in its 'present'.

[David Berg]

Stefoid-

Good points.  However, in my experience, the fantasy game-creation experience is a very long, multi-part process, and churning out data can be a very valuable step.  Some creators get inspired by thinking first of game situations, and then filling in necessary surrounding details; but others do it in the opposite order.  I for one get excited in the process of creating a detailed setting, and this then inspires me to conceive and work on game situations.  I'm certainly not saving myself any time and effort, but as long as I enjoy the process, I don't think I'm wasting any either.  :)

I am relatively new to the Forge, so if I'm missing out on some element of this dynamic that's already been discussed ad nauseum, feel free to educate me.  (In this thread if it relates to Condemn; otherwise, PM me.)

-Dave

[stefoid]

I agree.   If you are doing a game based on an existing setting, you can zero in on the situation pretty much to the exclusion of all else, because the boring details of the setting are already in your players minds.  the power of cliches!

If you want to come up with something new, then of course you have to give details to the players.  But you can filter those details as much as possible to give the flavour but without the deadwood.  Basically the setting becomes the situation

[zilla151]

inchoates are you still active on this board?