Sorceror Updates/Revisions

[Miedvied]

Are there any plans in the works regarding updating and revising Sorceror?

I've noticed that in a lot of discussions here there occurs the comment - not infrequently - that "There were hints of [this theory/phrase/idea] in Sorceror, but the [language/formal theory/subsequent elaboration] wasn't around back then, so that's not in there." I'm sure I'm not the first person to whom it's occured that an update to the book could take advantage of the several years of thinking, discussion, and experience that have come along since the last edition.

Anyway, I don't mean to start making a case for an update, just asking if there is one in the works.

[Ron Edwards]

I'm enjoying imagining the looks on the faces of regular readers of this forum. None of you would happen to have put this poor fellow up to this, would you?

Here's the short version: Feedback, which I suppose you could also call the "off my meds" version if I were on meds which I'm not. The much nicer version is provided by Ralph and Eero in the second page of Duelling Imperatives, which as a thread is marred by an eminently stupid series of posts from one guy. For the longer and much nastier version which completely and thoroughly expresses my viewpoint on the matter, see Helping Sorcerer thrive. That's the really good one, especially because I verbally kick a guy in the ribs for a while.

(I was just re-reading it and got to the post where I say, "Sorry about the kicks in the ribs." My response just now was, "Why'd I say that?? Kick'im again!")

Best, Ron

[greyorm]

However...Jesse Burneko is/has been working on a mini-supplement called Sorcerer Unbound that is slated to sort-of serve the purpose of a "second edition" or a "stupid gamer's edition" of Sorcerer. There is also the Sorcerer wiki, which is a great source of rules clarifications and various distillations of discussions had here about play.

[Miedvied]

Well. Having completed reading "Helping Sorceror Thrive" and the other linked threads... damn. Well, I suppose I should mark it a lucky day; if someone had asked me such a question without bothering to search the archives first, I probably would have been more rude in my response.

As regarding Jesse Burneko's Sorceror Unbound project, that's pretty cool and I hope it'll be widely-known enough to benefit those that don't already frequent these forums. For the most part, I don't really need these things at this point; I had absorbed a lot of Forge-talk long before I picked up Sorceror.

[jburneko]

Reading threads like this really helps spur my progress on Sorcerer Unbound.  In writing it, I've come to understand where Ron is coming from with regards to trying to teach people to undo habits that don't work with Sorcerer.  There are many days when I look at what I've written and think, "this is obvious" or "but all this is available on The Forge or on the Wiki."  I'm really concerned about giving proper credit because not all of the ideas are mine but I can't find who they originated with.

My first approach was to try and come up with all the assumptions and habits most gamers have developed and then systematically brake them down and provided alternate modes of thinking.  I got a few pages into this approach and I realized what I had was a jumbled academic mess (and I wasn't even using Forge jargon) that sounded very contradictory because what broke down assumption A sounded like (even though it wasn't) then answer to assumption B.

My current approach is more of a 'How To' guide that's a step by step instruction manual detailing techniques and things one should pay careful attention to at each stage of play.  This is working much better and I'm a little over 1/2 way through a first draft.  I've come realize that I really need to play Sorcerer again to feel through my next few chapters.  My hope is to have a solid first draft I can send out to, uh, 'playtest readers' sometime this year.

Jesse

[Miedvied]

I look forward to seeing it. I find that the invaluable thing about these forums isn't precisely the advice - yes, it's great, but anything that isn't game-specific (which is why I appreciate Ron's limiting talk about theory to Actual Play more and more every day)  has generally been rehashed many times. The valuable thing here is that every time some particular aspect of the game clicks for someone, and I come across it, they can make it click in a wholly different way for me, too. If you can share just one epiphany the entire project becomes worthwhile; those moments change how people's entire play-style.