Sheer Madness, or Doable -- Click-n-Lock Triangle

[Ben Lehman]

Okay, forget my early snark, that shit is hot.

[Tuxboy]

Firstly, the rotational nature makes it a tad tricky to read everything at once, which seems problematic to me. I personally like things to line up along the same axis.

I can see your point but I don't think its a deal-breaker...

Firstly, as far as I'm concerned one of the great strengths of Capes is that the system has enough inherent flexibility that we really don't need the extra layer of granularity to have an equal amount of detail. Secondly, race (as has been mentioned) seems to be a bit of a red herring as far as I'm concerned. If a character's "inborn" racial nature/cultural upbringing isn't that narratively important to the character, then there's no need for a separate click. For some characters it might be, but that can be figured into the binary clicks easily enough. We could make a set of clicks (or, maybe more interesingly, locks...) that relate to races/upbringing and just use them two to a side alongside the regular ones like is already built into the game. We don't really need the triangle to do that at all. We can also just tweak existing class/powerset clicks to match the race or background and move on.

To me, it ultimately comes down to "does another layer of complexity add enough to justify the increased granularity?" I really do like your design, but I don't think that it really adds anything to the game that wasn't there to begin with, at the cost of having more stuff to fiddle about with and cut.

Agreed, Capes is very flexible and you can achieve the same end results with the binary system, but I feel the trinary system will simplify the process rather than complicating it.

If we take Tony's Hotshot-Elf-Fighter example:

In the binary system (and assuming that the "inborn" racial nature/cultural upbringing is narratively important to the character) you would have to rework either the Fighter, the Hotshot, or both templates to get the desired results, which is fine if you are happy to do that on the fly, but it does distract from the "pick up & play" nature of the CnL system.

Of course the other option is to prepare modified CnLs for every possible combination of Race, Class, and Personality, which strikes me as a fairly labour intensive task...not to mention the extensive deforestation to provide the paper for them ;)

In the trinary system you could just pick up the Hotshot, Fighter and Elf templates, cross off three, number the rest and you are ready to play...seems to me to be the epitome of a CnL system...fast and simple.

The trinary system needs a name like Click N Lock...but I can get the phrase Lock N Load out of my head so I'll need to think about it some more *L*

[dunlaing]

I still think it looks inelegant, but now it also looks genre-inappropriate to me. That looks like something for a Sci-Fi version of Capes.

I cobbled this thing together without bothering to find a good texture, but this is more in line with what I would want to see for a Fantasy version of your idea:
https://home.comcast.net/~dunlaing/moresimpler.pdf

you know, for what it's worth.

[drnuncheon]

How about a ring?  Can't say that's not genre-appropriate!

One of the things that's kind of interesting is that with a setup like this, you could double up on one kind of template.  For instance, you could have a Hotshot Fighter-Mage (who might be any race, but whatever it is, it doesn't drive his story as much as his training or his personality) or a Bitter Elf-Dwarf (maybe he got the worst of both sides?)

If you let the player freely choose which 5-8 abilities generate Debt you wouldn't even have to worry too much about it unbalancing the characters.

J

[Uhlrik]

How about a ring?  Can't say that's not genre-appropriate!{/quote]
You've got a point there, though a ring would likely still have my concern about orientation of text.

If you let the player freely choose which 5-8 abilities generate Debt you wouldn't even have to worry too much about it unbalancing the characters.

You may be on to something there. I'll have to ponder on the consequences.

[Sindyr]

Been away for a bit, back now.

I love the techy looking visual illusion style of the 3 way triangular interlocking pieces.

I would love to see the 3-way interlocking templates done in a fantasy style, such as a ring as someone else suggested.  I would do it myself, but my strong suit isn't art, it's logic and math. :(

-Sindyr

[Tuxboy]

I still think it looks inelegant, but now it also looks genre-inappropriate to me. That looks like something for a Sci-Fi version of Capes.

I cobbled this thing together without bothering to find a good texture, but this is more in line with what I would want to see for a Fantasy version of your idea:
https://home.comcast.net/~dunlaing/moresimpler.pdf

you know, for what it's worth.

Mechanically identical but visually much more simple...does address Uhlrik's concerns over orientation.

But for me, I like the triangle look...guess its horses for courses really ;)

It could be made to look much more "elegant" and genre-specific, but its a working character sheet...the mechanic is extremely elegant.

[Tuxboy]

One of the things that's kind of interesting is that with a setup like this, you could double up on one kind of template.  For instance, you could have a Hotshot Fighter-Mage (who might be any race, but whatever it is, it doesn't drive his story as much as his training or his personality) or a Bitter Elf-Dwarf (maybe he got the worst of both sides?)

If you let the player freely choose which 5-8 abilities generate Debt you wouldn't even have to worry too much about it unbalancing the characters.

Interesting thought! I had visualised the "class" template having 5 debt generators, the "race" 2 debt gen and 3 non, and the "persona" 1 debt gen and 4 non.

Will have to think more about that one...could give more flexiblity...

[Josh Roby]

Thanks for all the responses, guys!  In no particular order:

Looking Fantasy-ish If I get excited, I'll be redrawing the central piece to look like pieces of wood braced with wrought iron clasps.  It'll be a little less clean-and-scifi, and will enhance the optical illusion bit.  I was considering making one side wood, one side masonry, and the last side... some other fantasy building material, but I couldn't think of a third building material.

Debt The way I have it in my head, everything on Class generates Debt, and the Powers from Race generate Debt.  So instead of proving you're worth your superpowers, it's more proving your worth as a Hero (capital H).

Pick Any Three Especially if you ditch my Debt scheme, this is feasible, although preprinted click-n-locks would often end up completely upside-down instead of just at a sixty degree angle.

[TonyLB]

Looking Fantasy-ish If I get excited, I'll be redrawing the central piece to look like pieces of wood braced with wrought iron clasps.  It'll be a little less clean-and-scifi, and will enhance the optical illusion bit.  I was considering making one side wood, one side masonry, and the last side... some other fantasy building material, but I couldn't think of a third building material.

Rusted, pitted metal, I should think.

[drnuncheon]

Pick Any Three Especially if you ditch my Debt scheme, this is feasible, although preprinted click-n-locks would often end up completely upside-down instead of just at a sixty degree angle.

If I were doing it, I'd just print them all with the center of the circle being the "top". 

Then again, I'm perfectly happy spinning the ring to see what I want.

J

[Sindyr]

Looking Fantasy-ish If I get excited, I'll be redrawing the central piece to look like pieces of wood braced with wrought iron clasps.  It'll be a little less clean-and-scifi, and will enhance the optical illusion bit.  I was considering making one side wood, one side masonry, and the last side... some other fantasy building material, but I couldn't think of a third building material.

Orichalcum or some other mythical/mystical substance?

[Josh Roby]

Orichalcum or some other mythical/mystical substance?

And that looks like what? ;)

[TonyLB]

It looks sort of like adamantium, but with a richer luster.

[Sindyr]

I *said* I wasn't an artist. *wink*

Seriously, I have no idea what it looks like, just brainstorming here.