[TSOY] Better off without bonus dice?

[Halzebier]

I don't understand the die roll mechanics of TSOY.

"After you roll, remove a number of your dice equal to your penalty dice, starting with pluses. If you run out of pluses, remove blanks, and then minuses. Bonus dice work the opposite way: you remove minuses first, then blanks, then pluses."

If my character is an adept (2) and rolls the dice, his *maximum* result is 2 (the fixed value for being an adept) + 3 (for the three dice rolled, which at best result in +/+/+) = 5. If he has a bonus die, his maximum result is 2 + 2 = 4, if he has three bonus dice, his maximum is 2.

Hence, bonus dice will increase your chances of success, but they'll also limit the heights of success you can attain.

Even more strangely, penalty dice will simply cancel out the effects of a roll. The moment I have three penalty dice, the roll becomes moot - whether it's +/+/+ or -/-/- or anything in between -- all three dice are removed, so only the fixed value of the skill is left.

I suspect I've made a logical error somewhere along the way, so could someone help me (or, alternatively, explain the reasoning behind all of this)?

Regards,

Hal (confused)

[Ben Lehman]

Yes, you've made a logical error.

Say you roll with 3 bonus dice.  That's six dice all toled.  You count the best three dice.  So the maximum is +3, always.

yrs--
--Ben

[donbaloo]

Ben's right.  To further illustrate...regardless of how many bonus or penalty dice you roll you will always be removing exactly that number of dice from the table before calculating your successes.  As a result you'll always be left with three dice on the table.  For example, if your an adept (2) you always roll three dice when testing that skill.  If you have X number of penalty or bonus dice you'll be rolling 3+X dice for the test.  Afterwards you'll be removing X number of dice from the roll (starting with negatives if they were bonus dice, positives if they were penalty dice) so when it comes time to tally your successes they'll still only be 3 dice on the table.  To those you'll add your skill level.

So, you'll always roll the basic 3 dice.  Sometimes you'll roll more as a result of bonus or penalty dice.  After they all hit the table though you always remove the same number of dice that you added to the basic 3.

[Halzebier]

Thanks guys. That makes sense.