Where does the conflict lie?

[xjermx]

I'm trying to figure out how to best phrase this question, even as I write it, so you'll have to pardon me as I try to make this coherent.

Also, this seems like something that's so obvious that I wonder if its been written about at length, and I've just missed it, but still I'll ask.

In D&D conflict is probably between 90 and 100% combat based.  The "meat" of the game lies in hitting orcs with swords, hacking at dragons with magic axes, and generally trying to reduce things of hit points until you get their gold and XP.  Old habits, or at least patterns of thought, die hard.  I find myself both during play and during planning for play, wondering where the conflict is.

I guess I can answer my own question to some extent, but I'd still like to see it addressed by someone who can really strike at the core of the question.

I see the conflict in TSoY as being between people, whether between two players, or between a player character and a story-teller character.  I still feel like I havent quite phrased this question correctly, or properly defined what it is that I'm wondering about.

Does this make sense?  Can anyone help me here?

[Ricky Donato]

Hello,

First, your question is quite clear. "Where is the conflict?" is a question that needs to be answered for any RPG. Without conflict (which I think in Forge terminology is called Situation) you have nothing interesting going on.

Also, this seems like something that's so obvious that I wonder if its been written about at length, and I've just missed it, but still I'll ask.

You can look in some Forge articles for Situation (one of the 5 components of Exploration) for more info.

In D&D conflict is probably between 90 and 100% combat based. The "meat" of the game lies in hitting orcs with swords, hacking at dragons with magic axes, and generally trying to reduce things of hit points until you get their gold and XP. Old habits, or at least patterns of thought, die hard. I find myself both during play and during planning for play, wondering where the conflict is.

This is an old habit that doesn't need to die; it should be nurtured instead. The habit of asking "where is the conflict?" and the skill of being able to answer it are both fundamental to great games - both playing them and writing them.

I agree with your analysis of D&D - the conflict is between the characters and the nasty bad guys. Kill the bad guys, take their stuff, and gain XP. This is when D&D is at its best.

I see the conflict in TSoY as being between people, whether between two players, or between a player character and a story-teller character.

Emphasis mine. I think what you meant to write in the bolded part is "between two player characters". In that case, I completely agree. The conflict is between characters. In fact, TSoY works best when the players (including the Story Guide) co-operate to create conflict for the characters.

I hope that helps.

[colin roald]

Well, you can play either of these games however you want, but in terms of what's given the most support in the rules, D&D is about the tactics of fighting monsters, and TSoY is about conflicts between characters who want stuff that they can't both of them have.  Read some Actual Play threads -- you'll get the idea better by example than by descriptions. 

Or try this thread, which I guess is about how to create characters with interests in conflict.

http://www.indie-rpgs.com/forum/index.php?topic=20119.0

I think TSoY wants to be run in the same spirit.

[Valamir]

Think about good dramatic television...say...any show where you have people with different personalities, different ambitions, and different backgrounds who are thrown together in a common situation even though they may not have common goals.  This could be any number of shows, from Babylon 5, to Firefly, to Deadwood, to Conviction...and bunches more, but no need to turn this into a laundry list of favorite shows.

Point being, every one of those shows is chock full of conflict and yet actual physical combat is far from being the most common (although it is also not entirely absent...even in Conviction, a legal courtroom drama).

What kind of conflicts do you see in those shows.  People getting what they want, stopping others from getting what they want, etc. etc.  Those types of conflicts are what a large number of indie games are designed to feature, including TSOY.  

The goal is not to avoid combat, but rather make it just one viable tool out of many.  In games like D&D, combat is about the only interesting and reliable way to resolve something.  Interesting because it has tactical depth where most other situations are just "roll and hope"; and reliable because most non combat resolution are more vulnerable to DM fiat.

In TSOY, on the other hand.  ALL sources of conflict have the exact same degree of strategic depth, and the decision to go for "roll and hope" or BDtP lies with the player not GM fiat.  This levels the playing field and makes sure that a family arguement is just as viable a conflict as a family brawl.