Character generation questions

[GreatWolf]

One part of the Alyria rules have concerned me for a while, and that is the area of character generation.  I have two concerns that I am trying to balance:

1)  Too much structure in character generation limits possibilities and can restrict a player from creating the character that he has in mind.

2)  Insufficient structure in character generation opens the door to abuse of the system and can confuse honest players who are overwhelmed and confused by the options.

To this end, the current written Alyria rules use a point-based system for determining Traits and I/C while allowing Attributes and Virtue to be set free-form.  However, I am concerned that this might be too limiting.

An alternate method has been suggested.  In this method, a character sets his Virtue and Attributes free-form and can take up to three Traits of any rating.  This has worked well for me as I have run playtests, but I am concerned that it might not have sufficient structure for people who are not playing with me.

Therefore I thought that I would turn to this forum and solicit input.  Ron, I know that you used the point-based system.  Did your players feel restricted by it?  Jurgen, I know that you threw out the point-based system.  How did that fly in actual play?

And anyone else, feel free to throw in an opinion.

[Ron Edwards]

Hi Seth,

I liked the point-based system just fine, and I think it presents a good limitation for starting characters. It would help a bit if you'd clarify that the "points spent" are not meaningful in any other aspect of play. This isn't a very elegant aspect of the game, but it is functional and not much different from my 10-point limit for the attributes in Sorcerer, which is equally inelegant but practically quite functional.

I also suggest that the current method of using one Trait per conflict/roll is just fine - ie, no stacking. This has not resulted in any hassles either in my play of Alyria or in my play of The Pool / The Questing Beast, which has a similar rule for its Traits.

As long as we're talking about clarity and so forth, I suggest that you make it very clear in the resolution system that one's target number is one's opponent's temporary attribute, not one's own. You might see that as obvious, but it isn't.

Best,
Ron

[Jürgen Mayer]

Jurgen, I know that you threw out the point-based system.  How did that fly in actual play?

It went very well. As I already mentioned, the character creation process was collaborative, and everybody suggested traits and trait values for all PCs and NPCs.

I didn't use the point system for the starting traits, cause I feel it is an unnecessary complication. I just gave'em guidelines: about 1 to 3 traits, with maybe one of them good if their virtue was evil and vice versa; also they could take 1-3 I/C points. Most characters ended up with 2 or 3 traits; I think we had one with 4 and one with only 1. All went well with the guidelines, so I prolly won't use the point based trait generation ever.

IMO the whole point based chargen feels like an afterthought to the Diverse Lunacy System, which was already confirmed by SJ. Nowhere else do the players have to do calculations. I'd just throw it out, or maybe have it as an optional rule somewhere in a sidebar.

[Ron Edwards]

Hey,

Seth, I'm curious as to whether we're discussing Alyria as a great big, finally-realized, book thing, all done, or as a set of playable, down-and-dirty, do-it rules/guides.

If it's the former, then I'm with Jurgen; offering the point system as an option is a good way to go, or maybe revising the scheme entirely. But if it's the latter, then I vote for the current point system.

Best,
Ron

[GreatWolf]

Hey,

Seth, I'm curious as to whether we're discussing Alyria as a great big, finally-realized, book thing, all done, or as a set of playable, down-and-dirty, do-it rules/guides.

Right now, we're talking about the second option.  There's a lot that I'll need to consider before doing the great big, finally-realized book thing, so I'm narrowing my focus now to the next PDF release (i.e. giving setting info and revising the rules text).

There's a lot that I'd like to include in the final project, and a set of optional rules is part of that scheme.  In particular, I'd like to include a set of optional rules for making conflict resolution more concrete.  Personally, I like it fine the way it is right now, but some folks might like more solid rules (e.g. perhaps defining X successes to resolve a conflict or some such thing).  I'd also like to include a section discussing the "normal" resolution scheme (similar to Everway's GM tutorial) that would describe the thought process of using the Attributes, Traits, and dice rolls to narrate an action.  I think that some of these additions could make the game more user-friendly to some folks.  I'm also still debating in my mind both the style and content of the final setting information.  How much needs to be defined vs. what should be left to the individual gaming groups?  And how do I want to convey this information?

However, these are definitely not core concerns, as least as of yet.  I do need playtest feedback now, and having a PDF that will allow for real playtest is the next step.  Of course, my move is getting in the way now, but getting this together is the next phase for Alyria.