[DitV] Rules about ceremony

[Gugliandalf]

After four session of GMing dogs, I realized a mistake: ceremonial dice.

I used to have players roll them during sees or raises, just like bringing a trait or a belonging in game. Re-reading the rules saw they're just for fallout! :(

So, first: is that correct? Ceremonial dice are just for fallout, right?

Second, if answer is "yes": what's the point in bringin' up d4 ceremonial fallouts during conflicts?

IOW, I'm a little confused about the use of ceremony and its purpose (apart from it being cool ;-)).

[Gugliandalf]

Ok, just forgeti it and forgive me. I ran across this... :-)

[greyorm]

Heya,

I've had the same question, so I'm glad you raised it, but unfortunately I'm not seeing the answer in that other thread. I still don't see why inflicting d4 fallout is such a big deal. You apparently figured it out, so could you point a lost man in the right direction?

Let me give an example (cause I work better with those), you're in conflict with a demon, trying to exorcise the thing from a burial ground, and you Recite from the Book of Life as a Raise. This means if it Takes the Blow for that specific Raise, it will take d4 Fallout.

But...well, you're talking. So it's already going to be d4's for Fallout. How is getting Fallout dice for Reciting worth anything mechanically? Why not just tell the demon he's a very bad boy and should feel very sorry for what he's done and tell him to go home. Same Fallout.

I have the feeling I am completely missing something here, I just don't know what it is (obviously).

[lumpley]

Reciting scripture at a demon is metaphysically distinct from, but no better than, talking to one.

-Vincent

[Gugliandalf]

Reciting scripture at a demon is metaphysically distinct from, but no better than, talking to one.

To one demon or to one NPC?

Because, I mean, right for the metaphiysics, but how the darn fallout affects a demon? :-)

[Moreno R.]

A "raise"  must be something that your opponent can't ignore.

I think that a Demon could easily ignore your "telling him that he is a bad boy".

Using a (verbal) ceremony mean saying something to him that HE CAN'T IGNORE.

(and don't forget that when you have 3 dogs in authority, words can hurt demons more than guns...)

[greyorm]

A "raise"  must be something that your opponent can't ignore.
I think that a Demon could easily ignore your "telling him that he is a bad boy".
Using a (verbal) ceremony mean saying something to him that HE CAN'T IGNORE.

Ahhhhh...I begin to understand. Since the other phrase that confused me about ceremonies was "Ceremony lets you meet the demons and sorcerers on their own terms." Now it's starting to click.

(and don't forget that when you have 3 dogs in authority, words can hurt demons more than guns...)

Eh? Guns do d10 fallout.
Three in Authority does d8.

[Andrew Cooper]

Except that my reading of the rules and setting tells me that Guns don't do squat against Demons unless they possess someone.  Demons are incorporeal.  You can't shoot em.  They can ignore that just like they ignored you when you just talked to them.  They can't ignore Three in Authority though.

Of course, I'm still new to the game so if I'm wrong, someone please correct me.

[Gugliandalf]

A "raise"  must be something that your opponent can't ignore.

Got it! :-D

Thanx.