Introduction and general questions about RPG mechanics

[Kory Johnson]

Hi!  I'm new to RPGing for the most part (played a touch in the 1990s, but not enough to really remember much), and I've been forum lurking for a bit to try and absorb information, but so far most threads are over my head.  I thought I'd start asking questions, then...

1) I'd like to make my own game, but I realize the irony inherant in someone who knows little about RPGs trying to make one, so I figured I'll need to learn some first and make this a long-term project.  In the meantime, what should I play to get a flavor of different systems and approaches to design?  I'd like to start simple and move on from there...

2) My previous experience with RPGs was not entirely positive, as it was very sporadic and I never really got a flavor for different games.  I did play bits of Vampire, D&D, Rifts, Mutant Chronicles, Blue Planet, Robotech, Shadowrun, and Mage.  What I learned pretty quickly is that I tended to enjoy the universes far more than the rule systems (all of which I found too complex, with the exception of White Wolf).  Are there games out there that are very rules-light that I might learn from?

3) Can someone spell out the different camps of Narrativist, etc for me explicitly?  While the names are fairly descriptive, I don't really know all the history and theory behind them, so a short summary would do wonders for my understanding.  I didn't see a FAQ of gaming terms, per se, but if there's one I should be looking at, just point me in the right direction.

Anyhow, this site looks like a lively and interesting place to be, and I'm glad to be here.  Thanks in advance for your time and help.

[Paul Czege]

Hey Kory,

3) Can someone spell out the different camps of Narrativist, etc for me explicitly?  While the names are fairly descriptive, I don't really know all the history and theory behind them, so a short summary would do wonders for my understanding.  I didn't see a FAQ of gaming terms, per se, but if there's one I should be looking at, just point me in the right direction.

Ralph Mazza's GNS Primer might be a good place to start:

http://www.indie-rpgs.com/forum/index.php?topic=1559.0

Paul

[TonyLB]

1) I'd like to make my own game, but I realize the irony inherant in someone who knows little about RPGs trying to make one, so I figured I'll need to learn some first and make this a long-term project.  In the meantime, what should I play to get a flavor of different systems and approaches to design?  I'd like to start simple and move on from there...

If you, barely a gamer yourself, get together a group of friends who have similarly little or no gaming experience, and you take a ruleset and play a game and have fun with it then I promise that when I see you at a convention I will kiss you manfully on both cheeks like a manly, manly European man.  Because that would be utterly the coolest thing in recent memory.  I am so sick of RPGs being horribly in-bred, as if we were all little pieces of sourdough starter, and without at least one experienced gamer no game could ever get off the ground.

Yeah ... welcome to the wonderful world of accidentally pushing Tony's buttons.  Also, welcome to the Forge and to all the fun thereof!

Are there games out there that are very rules-light that I might learn from?

Yep.  What kind of game are you looking to design, yourself?  Where do your interests lie?  I'm sure people can recommend some games for you to play a few sessions of, so you can strip-mine them for ideas and mechanics.

3) Can someone spell out the different camps of Narrativist, etc for me explicitly?

Not really.  They aren't supposed to be camps (although they certainly seem that way some days).  They're different things that you, the player, can find really cool in your roleplaying.

Narrativist play involves finding the address of theme really cool.  Gamist play involves finding the gamble and guts really cool.  Simulationist play involves finding the adherence to genre and world really cool.

Game systems (and game groups) can drive these perceptions by rewarding one thing or another.  If you get a whole pile of candy to eat whenever you address theme, your taste buds add their vote to the idea that addressing theme is really cool.  The candy changes you perception of events.

Now most games don't use candy (sniff!) but they offer other things, usually related to empowering you (the player) to have an impact in the game and the story being told in it.  And that stuff can also change your perception, so that you are encouraged to value some aspects of your play more than others.

But beyond that it's all (a) a little changeable, depending on who is recounting the theory to you and (b) not hugely relevant to your first design.  What would really, really help us is if you told us a little bit about what kind of game you want to design, and what you want to be the cool stuff about it, setting aside the broader categories.

[Kory Johnson]

Paul:

Oops.  I guess that forum was more than a little obvious.  It looks highly appropriate for my questions.  Thanks for the redirect :)

Tony:

Yep.  What kind of game are you looking to design, yourself?  Where do your interests lie?  I'm sure people can recommend some games for you to play a few sessions of, so you can strip-mine them for ideas and mechanics.

I'm not entirely sure what exactly I'd like to design quite yet.  Plot-wise, I'm tossing about a sci-fi idea about some sentient symbiotic mechs, the failed colonization of attempt of an alien planet by humans, and the consequences of being introduced to hyper-advanced tech too quickly.  It's still in it's idea stage at this point, though, and I haven't put much thought into mechanics quite yet.  When I can more properly flesh it out, I'll give it a more appropriate introduction.

As for interests, you might have guessed I have a weakness for mecha (despite their usual prominence as fertile soil for cliche).  I've read quite a bit of William Gibson, so I guess I'd be interested in cyberpunk as well.  Blame World of Warcraft, perhaps, but all my love for standard swords and sorcery is pretty much burnt out at this point, so I'm not interested in that (unless it's extremely offbeat).  I'm also reading In the Mountains of Madness right now, so Cthulhu-style stuff about indescribable, unknown evils is bouncing about my brain. (No, I haven't played Call of Cthulhu yet.  Yes, I'm considering it.)

I guess really I'm open to a wide variety of games, and I'd welcome the varied exposure so I'll learn some new tricks, but I understand your reasoning behind asking the question was to narrow my field of choices, so for now I'll say mechs, cyberpunk, cthulhu-esque horror, and anything with unique mechanics of play.  I know that doesn't really narrow the field a whole bunch, but it's a start. :)

[TonyLB]

Hrm.  Man, I'd love to refer you straight to Shock, but a certain Joshua who will remain nameless hasn't quite released it yet.

But you seem (to my admittedly biased eye) to be looking at discussing the interaction of technology and society, brought down to a personal level.  Somewhat in the same way that movies like (say) Minority Report intertwine a personal narrative and the larger societal issues that it highlights.  Does that sound about right?

[Kory Johnson]

But you seem (to my admittedly biased eye) to be looking at discussing the interaction of technology and society, brought down to a personal level.  Somewhat in the same way that movies like (say) Minority Report intertwine a personal narrative and the larger societal issues that it highlights.  Does that sound about right?

That description rings true, yes.  I hadn't thought of it in quite those terms, but that seems to have crystallized the whole thing for me quite nicely.

I will look at the provided link, while I try to commit these ideas to paper.  Thanks again, TonyLB.

[Jason Morningstar]

Hey Kory,

Your as-yet-unwritten game already sounds crazy fun. 

You ask what games you ought to play to see what's what, and the answer to that is "all of them".  Seriously, expose yourself to as much as you can.  Try some Game Chef games, particularly the winners (and note that they were written in a week and may not be perfect, but will always be perfectly interesting).  Every one of the independent game forums here at the Forge has some insane goodness behind it. 

--Jason

[Thunder_God]

Also look for CthulhuTech, mainly on RPG.net, it'd been considered VapourWare but it seems someone picked up the distribution gauntlet.

Also, I'm sure Josh will like another sci-fi game, seeing as Shock: in a large part came to be because he wanted to fill the sci-fi gap(I hope I'm not mangling the story up!).

You should also consider non-RPG Games, and see what you like about them, as Tony said, too much inbreeding is bad.

[Caldis]

3) Can someone spell out the different camps of Narrativist, etc for me explicitly?  While the names are fairly descriptive, I don't really know all the history and theory behind them, so a short summary would do wonders for my understanding.  I didn't see a FAQ of gaming terms, per se, but if there's one I should be looking at, just point me in the right direction.

Your best bet for a faq of gaming terms is to check out the articles section at the top of the page and look for the glossary or try this link http://www.indie-rpgs.com/_articles/glossary.html.

[Joshua A.C. Newman]

Hiya! I'm a nameless Joshua.

There are lots of new technologies of roleplaying around. Try lots of stuff! There was talk about using Formula Dé (a car racing board game) as a resolution technique a while back, and if that's kosher, what's not?

Here are some I'd try, in your position:

Prime Time Adventures (my top recommendation)
Polaris
Shock: (mine, so I'm probably biased one way or another)
Universalis

If you feel like those are lacking something, it'll be easy to figure out what you need once you've done those.

[Joshua A.C. Newman]

Oh! Breaking the Ice, duh!

[David "Czar Fnord" Artman]

Mecha... and Cthulhu.
I got one question: will the mecha even have a chance?

Call of Cthulhu had combat and gun rules, too. Way we played, they tended to be of use only when a fellow character was begging to be put out of his misery. Lovecraft's horrors, generally, are not generally easy to shoot to death. ;)

Sounds cool, either way. I have this vision of a mecha squared off against a Great Old One, flinging whole buildings and shit at each other!

Maybe you could do an Ultraman "mod" of your core rules, too?

Sounds cool!
David