Quick question about Demonic Influence in Tower Creek branch (from the book)

[Doyce]

So, I'm riding into Tower Creek, and the first thing I get is Sister Doeswell coming up with her stillborn baby in her arms, asking me to name him, even though he was stillborn, because 'the King didn't intend for him to be born dead'.

And I take a good hard look at the baby with eyes blessed with the light of the King, and y'know what? She's right: this baby's death wasn't natural.

So... True or False: at that point... with me still on my horse and only just pulled into town, the demonic influence is 5d10, because I, as the character, know there's been Murder.

[wingedcoyote]

If they just knew that somebody had been killed, that isn't necessarily the kind of murder that counts for Demonic Influence. Since this one is pretty obviously magical, however, I'd say it counts for the 5d10. Youch.

[Andrew Cooper]

The Dogs have to realize there's something wrong for there to be Demonic Influence dice?  Is that in the text somewhere?  If it is, I missed it.  My understanding is that if there is something wrong that warrants 5d10 Demonic Influence dice then the dice get rolled whether the Dogs are oblivious to there being a problem or not.

[coffeestain]

Andrew,

The demonic influence is based on "what the Dogs have discovered about the town, not what's actually going on".

I'm with wingedcoyote on the rest

Regards,
Daniel

[Doyce]

The Dogs have to realize there's something wrong for there to be Demonic Influence dice?  Is that in the text somewhere?  If it is, I missed it.  My understanding is that if there is something wrong that warrants 5d10 Demonic Influence dice then the dice get rolled whether the Dogs are oblivious to there being a problem or not.

P. 75 of the newer version of the rules (which I got a few days ago -- the older rules are much sketchier about how all this is handled): 

"Demonic Influence depends on what the Dogs have discovered about the town, not what's actually going on.  What's the worse "something wrong" manifestation the PCs have seen here?

Emphasis within that quote is Vincent's.

Thanks to other folks for their thoughts.  DAMN that's a lot of dice.

[Andrew Cooper]

Thanks for the clarification guys!  I just totally missed that.

Vincent,

Could you explain why the Demonic Influence changes depending on what the Dogs know?  It seems counter-intuitive to me.  Either the Demons are influencing things or the ain't, I would think.

[Andrew Cooper]

Aw, crap.  I just realized I might have highjacked this thread.  Vincent, if my question needs to be moved to it's own thread, would you do that.  Sorry guys.

[Doyce]

Aw, crap.  I just realized I might have highjacked this thread.  Vincent, if my question needs to be moved to it's own thread, would you do that.  Sorry guys.

Eh, as creator of the thread, I hereby declare that I am interested in seeing the answer to your question, in this thread -- it's related, kinda. (And I got the answer I was looking for, already. :) )

[Doyce]

And my two cents on your question, Andrew, is that it's a cinematic convention, allowing for realistic ramp-up of opposition as the Dogs discover more and more of what's going on.

[Mark Woodhouse]

FWIW, I've always seen it as the demons' trying to lie low and let the Dogs pass by. It's only when they're rumbled that they come right out in open opposition to the Dogs.

[ffilz]

Could you explain why the Demonic Influence changes depending on what the Dogs know?  It seems counter-intuitive to me.  Either the Demons are influencing things or the ain't, I would think.

The way I read it, especially based on some of Vincent's recent comments, is that just like in Ron's Sorceror, the demons aren't real separate entities. They are a constuction of the characters to explain events, perhaps combined with an expression of the Dogs self confidence. In this light, the demonic influence dice represent the Dogs questioning their faith as they resolve the issues in the town. If that reading is correct, then obviously the dice depend totally on the Dogs perceptions, not on what's really going on.

As to revealing the murder in the first scene, and does that jump the demonic influence right up to 5d10? I think that's something I'd play by ear. Are the players expressing deep horror at what's going on?

When I ran Tower Creek, we slowly ramped things up, even though they fairly quickly found out about the still born baby. They didn't yet have evidence to connect it to a sorceror's doings yet. FYI, in my run of Tower Creek, the still birth was caused by the mother tripping over a shotgun in the middle of the night and it blasting her belly. Could have been a freak accident. Or, maybe not. Especially maybe not when they found out about the Wilhelmina and the attempted fertility rite. When that happened, that's when I ramped up the demonic influence to 5d10.

Frank

[wingedcoyote]

I think Vincent was saying that the Demons could represent only the intersection of emotion and random chance, but by default I don't think they do. My impression is that on most of the supernatural scale, Dogs contains real honest-to-God magic -- when you talk to the Demons, they can talk back.

[lumpley]

The rule that demonic influence follows the Dogs' discoveries is a pacing & ramp-up mechanism, as Doyce says, and as I was writing it I was thinking of the demons laying low, as Mark says.

An interesting - and very desirable - consequence of the rule is that a town's sorcerer is seriously weaker before the Dogs know that he exists.

-Vincent

[klaveshy]

There's meant to be a sense of 'arriving just in the nick of time', no? The conflict of any given town, diegetically, could already be long over, or not even in its initial stages before the dogs ride up. but this would make for a poor story from a narrative point of view.

I picture carefully laid plans of (any given villain) coming to frutition just as the heroes ride into town. Do I have that right?

But does it somehow ruin it if each stage of the escalating sins aren't represented by narrative events?

I'm trying to assemble a DitV game myself, and I'm curious as to how this works. When someone posts the plan for a town, at what point in the scheduled events do the Dogs come in (and thus, perhaps, derail said events for the sake of gaming creamy goodness)?

[klaveshy]

You know what? Sorry. I just realized that the sin escalation and the Demonic Infuence aren't directly tied together, are they? Correlated, but not tied. Didn't mean to post off topic!

Still gettin the hang of this.