Idea for an RPG Setting...

[Philbo]

Here's my idea in a nutshell...

A fantasy role-playing game set in a fictional land based loosely on mythic Greece.  The tone is light-hearted and adventurous, with an emphasis on humor.  The game mechanics are simple – intended for fast and cinematic action.  The PCs portray heroes of mythic proportions, often falling prey to the grander plots of scheming gods.

What do you think?  And, what sort of variety could there be amongst PC "types" ?  It might get boring if everyone just played a Hercules/Jason clone.

[oreso]

So, er, Hercules: Legendary Journeys / Xena: Warrior Princess style?

I'd buy that. I presume everyone will play the strapping heroes, not the sexy(er) sidekicks?

[Philbo]

So, er, Hercules: Legendary Journeys / Xena: Warrior Princess style?

I'd buy that. I presume everyone will play the strapping heroes, not the sexy(er) sidekicks?

Well, yeah, kinda'.  But with with more bloodshed.  And not entirely greece.  And not based on a TV show.

[ODDin]

The two mentioned TV shows have about as much to do with Ancient Greece as Conan the Barbarian. Just rename Conan to Hercules, and there you go. In order to create an RPG actually set in Ancient Greece, one would need to read about the mythology and the the society (what the TV show creators obviously didn't do) - and this should be done even if you only want to recreate the atmosphere. What needs to be understood is that Greeks didn't see their gods as uncomprehendible greater beings; their gods were right here, on Earth, they sat on top a very specific mountain, they used to walk among the mortals, they didn't at all all-knowing and omnipotent, they could be argued with, they made foolish mistakes, and let us not forget - almost everyone at the time could trace their ancestry back to at least one of them.
What I mean is that even if the Pantheon is changed, it is this atmosphere that should be taken into account.
Otherwise - it could be very nice, yes.

As for PC types - well, just take the Argo and you have a big bunch of characters to begin with; you can just take all of their special abilities and create a big pool to select from (with a certain limitation, of course). Other than that, it could be interesting that for a player creation, one would choose which god exists in his ancestry, and it would define their abilities, or their choice of abilities.

[oreso]

The two mentioned TV shows have about as much to do with Ancient Greece as Conan the Barbarian. Just rename Conan to Hercules, and there you go. In order to create an RPG actually set in Ancient Greece, one would need to read about the mythology and the the society (what the TV show creators obviously didn't do) - and this should be done even if you only want to recreate the atmosphere. What needs to be understood is that Greeks didn't see their gods as uncomprehendible greater beings; their gods were right here, on Earth, they sat on top a very specific mountain, they used to walk among the mortals, they didn't at all all-knowing and omnipotent, they could be argued with, they made foolish mistakes, and let us not forget - almost everyone at the time could trace their ancestry back to at least one of them.
What I mean is that even if the Pantheon is changed, it is this atmosphere that should be taken into account.
Otherwise - it could be very nice, yes.

Thats exactly how its done in the shows. The Gods were reoccuring villains/allies that the protagonists dealt with. They were very comprehensible.

[Caldis]

What do you think?  And, what sort of variety could there be amongst PC "types" ?  It might get boring if everyone just played a Hercules/Jason clone.

For variety among the pc's and to meet the tone requirements you are looking for I think what you should ask the players is two things.

1) What makes the character unique, some special ability like strength or archery or speed or whatever, just some kind of ability that would make the character unique.

2) How is this character funny?  How is humour going to work on this character?  Does he have over the top mannerisms, a goofy sidekick, really bad luck? 

I think defining a few aspects like this about the characters will give you more distinction between the characters than if you try to tightly define the typical physical attributes.

[Roger]

What sort of variety could there be amongst PC "types" ?  It might get boring if everyone just played a Hercules/Jason clone.

I've seen this sort of concern mostly out of people who cut their teeth on D&D for years and years.

My suggestion is to actually try it:  Get your group together and say, Hey guys, we're all gonna play Hercules/Jason clones in this game!

In my experience, many players easily enjoy that sort of approach, and the whole Need for Diversity turns out to be a red herring.  In two senses, really:  1)  The assumption that players need lots more diversity than what's being suggested here, and 2)  The assumption that there's not enough diversity here already.  From my understanding, Hercules and Jason were almost polar opposites.  So there might already be a lot more diversity in this approach than one might first think.


Cheers,
Roger

[billvolk]

I've been reading a comic book called Epicurus the Sage, by William Messner-Loebs and Sam Keith. There's no ultra-violence, but you might want to check it out to see something else that lightheartedly plays with Greek history and mythology.

Consider forcing (or just encouraging) players in this game to play pre-existing mythological characters, philosophers, or other well-known ancient Greeks. What's the point in avoiding a proper name that's in the public domain? If a character wants to be an Achilles clone, there's no harm in just letting him be Achilles.

[ODDin]

Thats exactly how its done in the shows. The Gods were reoccuring villains/allies that the protagonists dealt with. They were very comprehensible.

I didn't make myself quite clear, and I see that when I read my previous post again (a simple paragraph break would do marvels there). I didn't mean to say that the example given was the specific problem with the shows, that was indeed done fine; the main problem with the shows was actually that they had no connection to the real myhtology, except for the names and the vague characteristics of the characters, and some other problems too.
My example regarding the gods was meant mainly for Philbo, not as a continuation of my ranting about the shows.

[Philbo]

Salu,

Okay, so I've been rolling this idea around in my head.  I really like the suggestion that someone made about the PCs being descendants of a divine bloodline, like Heracles.  Depending on which god they chose, they would have different options for powers and such.  Sort of a mythic Greece super-powers game, if you will.

But there are a few areas that are still fuzzy to me.

• Where does MY game fall in the timeline of mythic Greece?  I'm not suggesting chronological accuracy in a historical sense -- I just would prefer not to have the PCs trouncing about while Hercules is out doing his labors, or any of the other legends are stealing the spotlight.  My setting will be an inaccurate blend of eras.  Athens will be majestic, as though it were at its peak, the Lycurgan reforms will have been adopted in Sparta, etc.  But, it will be before the first Persian invasion and the Peloponnesian Wars.  Basically, I want it set in a fictional time after the exploits of the famous heroes, but before the real world came crashing in.  Does that make sense?
  Mythological accuracy -- I'm going to use a very simplified version of Greek mythology.  For example, there won't be one (or three) cyclops, but a species of them.  There won't be one minotaur, but a culture of them, etc.  I won't be delving deeply into the family tree of the gods, just a broadstroke description of their past.  Though it will be recognizably Greek, I plan on taking poetic license, as many films/series/books have done in the past.  Any thoughts?
  PC Motivation -- What will be the motivating factor for the PCs?  I'm advocating that they're required to play heroic figures.  But I mean, how are the descendants of gods treated by the public?  Are they on a mission from their patron gods?  What are the motives of the gods?  How common are these godly descendants?  Do they serve a purpose?  These are important questions.  Who's got some ideas?
  
  

I'll be brainstorming some more after work.  In the meantime, let me know what you think.  Oh, and I'm calling the game "Children of Olympus".  Whattya' think?
-phil

[billvolk]

Giving the player characters static, reliable powers and bonuses based on the god they revere seems very un-Greek. A big part of Greek mythology is that gods are fickle and have very human foibles. A character who gets power from a god could have to deal with him or her as an NPC, and every favor called on would come at the risk of displeasing the god and being turned into something icky or otherwise toyed with.

On the other hand, I really like the idea of player characters receiving benefits based on their ancestors. Having different bloodlines available would allow for PC diversity. A descendant of Hercules would be very different from a descendant of Odysseus. Players could even choose gods for ancestors, as this happens all the time in Greek myths. Also, since PCs can be related, players don't have to fight over parts to play.

[Philbo]

Giving the player characters static, reliable powers and bonuses based on the god they revere seems very un-Greek. A big part of Greek mythology is that gods are fickle and have very human foibles. A character who gets power from a god could have to deal with him or her as an NPC, and every favor called on would come at the risk of displeasing the god and being turned into something icky or otherwise toyed with.

I like it.  I love it.  So, perhaps they have these "abilities" that are earned with experience and satisfying the god's bidding.  But depending on their favor with said god, the results may vary.  And the gods would of course appear now and again, though mainly for plot purposes.

On the other hand, I really like the idea of player characters receiving benefits based on their ancestors. Having different bloodlines available would allow for PC diversity. A descendant of Hercules would be very different from a descendant of Odysseus. Players could even choose gods for ancestors, as this happens all the time in Greek myths. Also, since PCs can be related, players don't have to fight over parts to play.

PCs will be descended from a particular god's bloodline, though NOT a direct descendant, as in the case of Hercules.  Sometimes the divine gifts skip a generation, etc.  That's why only a handful of "Champions" (god-gifted mortals) exist.  The setting will be in the years after the major heroes of yore.  Leaving Greece in need of a few good heroes, and providing PCs the spotlight.

There's some questions that come to mind, that hopefully some of you can mull over... such as:

1)  What about PC motivation?  The gods don't seem to serve a particular good or bad purpose, traditionally, just selfish.  But, how do I motivate the PCs towards heroism if they're serving the gods (directly or indirectly) ?  I could alter the Greek gods of this version to simply have a different agenda, like the TV series.  Paint Zeus as a good guy, Hera as bad, etc, etc.  What are your thoughts?  I mean, if the gods are just self-serving then the PCs don't have much motivation to use their gifts for good.  So, for game purposes, I might have to create a dichotomy(sp?) of good and evil within the pantheon of 12.  Any arguments?

2) I'm leaning away from a totally slapstick humorous game, and more towards serious possibilities.  City-states and politics are still going to play a part.  I want mortals to fight wars and such still, with the possibility of PCs being involved.  That could be cool.

-phil

[brainwipe]

Would you take it from a Historical view of the ancient Greeks or would you take it from ancient Greek literature?

A historical point of view would base things solidly in their philosophy and architecture (that which as survived) and people's belief in the gods. From a literature point of view, the gods play a very big part in day-to-day life, always interfering and sometimes walking in the land of men.

[contracycle]

I mean, if the gods are just self-serving then the PCs don't have much motivation to use their gifts for good.  So, for game purposes, I might have to create a dichotomy(sp?) of good and evil within the pantheon of 12.  Any arguments?

Yes; its un-Greek, effete Barbarian morality.

"Without a sign, his sword the brave man draws, and asks no omen, but his country's cause"
- Homer

Good and evil are not really a big driver in this sort of context, its more about personal glory and reputation.  Thats why the gods don't exhibit a good/evil split, but good things and evil things are attributed to the approval or displeasure of the gods.  Some gods might simply be malevalent, though.

[ODDin]

What about PC motivation?  The gods don't seem to serve a particular good or bad purpose, traditionally, just selfish.  But, how do I motivate the PCs towards heroism if they're serving the gods (directly or indirectly) ?  I could alter the Greek gods of this version to simply have a different agenda, like the TV series.  Paint Zeus as a good guy, Hera as bad, etc, etc.  What are your thoughts?  I mean, if the gods are just self-serving then the PCs don't have much motivation to use their gifts for good.  So, for game purposes, I

I don't think that making good gods and evil gods is really a good idea, as it's really simplistic and removes the whole beauty of the Greek gods. The motivation may come from other places too. If one acts as a servent of Zeus, and Zeus got annoyed by Hera, the player can have a mission from Zeus to go and destroy Hera's temple somewhere - this doesn't make neither Zeus nor Hera "evil", it's just their normal way of dealing with domestic problems...
Generally, the gods often need "Champions" to serve them on earth, and thus the various gods may offer the players "jobs" and promise rewards, or punsih them for serving a rival god. It can be quite interesting for a player to be caught in the middle of a fight between the gods, and in Greek mythology, that's the main thing the gods are doing anyway. The player can also take a stand against the gods, or a certain god, if he feels they're doing something immoral.
Plus, if we're creating new heroes, why not create new wars? New epic stories? New evil kings with their cruel assignments? Think like this - where did Heracles' motivation come from? Where did Odysseus' motivation come from? Even without the gods being strictly good or evil there was a source of motivation for these heroes. Such should be the source of motivation for PCs in your world, I believe. All that needs to be done is to create a good epic story.