Is designing an RPG gateway game a bad plan?

[mindwanders]

I'm playing about with what path to follow for publishing/marketing my game. The principles all seem to be pretty simple and should be usable to people with no roleplaying experience. One of the things I was playing about with for releasing the game was to tailor it as a "gateway game". By that I mean a game that is placed into other markets in order to capture brand new players rather than trying to get existing roleplayers to pickup the game.

The game is a diceless Supers rpg, and my intention is to package the whole thing up to look like a graphic novel so that it will sit nicely on comic book shelves.

I feel like I've got a pretty good handle on how to write/layout a game like this, the problem is that I'm not so sure about distribution and low cost marketing within the comic book sector. Within the RPG industry I know I can go to places like IPR and RPGnow for low cost distribution, I know I can push for reviews and get actual play posts to raise awareness.

Now I'm pretty sure I can do enough digging around to be able to do on line marketing within the comic book sector, but I'm not sure if that would actually be enough for the purposes of an actual gateway game. Really I want it on the shelves of comic book stores and book shops that sell graphic novels. I'm assuming that there are standard distributors within the comic industry in much the same way as the RPG industry, I'm also assuming that the margins are around the same.

I was wondering if anyone had had any experience trying to get mainstream distribution within the comic book industry or had a good idea of just how big the crossover between RPG distributers and comic distributers is?

Is this an idea that is best just left to the big boys of the RPG industry who have the marketing budget to blow and the distribution clout to get into the stores or is it actually a possibility for an indie publisher?

[philreed]

One possible (low-cost) place to start is sites like:

http://www.comixpress.com

You'll hit comic fans and not have to invest a lot of money into reaching that market.

[guildofblades]

My personal opinion is that is you are going to publish an RPG gateway game then you need to have new markets staked out with a really good plan on how to distribute to them.

I also think an RPG gateway game needs to be very low cost or have an awesome tie in to another IP. For instanced, an RPG based on World of War Craft, designed as an RPG gateway game could do fairly well because of the power of the name.

I've personally got a business model sitting here waiting to be used someday, with a plan to print and give away 30 million copies of an introductory RPG over a 5 year span and to do it profitably. But it takes $150,000 or so to get that ball rolling and I don't have that chunk to invest in the project quite yet. But when I can invest that $150,000 without fear of bankrupting the company, we'll go full steam ahead.

Anyway, my point is, know what you intend to accomplish with a gateay product fully before to venture down the road of publishing or marketing it. If you can not accomplish those goals with the resources at hand, then perhaps its best not to do the gateway product just yet.

Ryan S. Johnson
Guild of Blades Publishing Group
http://www.guildofblades.com
http://www.1483online.com

[Justin D. Jacobson]

IIRC, there is at least one distributor (Alliance?) that distributes to both game shops and comic shops. You can always call up over there and speak to one of their reps. This also sounds like a great question to ask on the GPA e-mail list. If you're not a member of the GPA, go run and do that now. It's the best bargain in the industry. I think the associate membership is like $40 for the year and gives you access to a lot of great resources, not the least of which is an e-mail list of hundreds of people in all sectors of the business.

[mindwanders]

One possible (low-cost) place to start is sites like:

http://www.comixpress.com

You'll hit comic fans and not have to invest a lot of money into reaching that market.

Thanks, that looks very useful.

At first glance it also looks slightly cheaper than Lulu for full colour work.

I was hoping that there was something like this for the comics industry. Doesn't look like it has any established way to escalate up to mainstream distribution though.

My personal opinion is that is you are going to publish an RPG gateway game then you need to have new markets staked out with a really good plan on how to distribute to them.

I totally agree. I just thought it would be sensible to sound out some people here and see if anyone has already done a chunk of the research.

I also think an RPG gateway game needs to be very low cost or have an awesome tie in to another IP. For instanced, an RPG based on World of War Craft, designed as an RPG gateway game could do fairly well because of the power of the name.

Anyway, my point is, know what you intend to accomplish with a gateay product fully before to venture down the road of publishing or marketing it. If you can not accomplish those goals with the resources at hand, then perhaps its best not to do the gateway product just yet.

Yeah, that's what I'm trying to work out.

It may be something to look into doing after I release it as a normal RPG (assuming I make any money of course).

IIRC, there is at least one distributor (Alliance?) that distributes to both game shops and comic shops. You can always call up over there and speak to one of their reps.

That sounds like a good plan. I'll try and look into it. Of course this whole thing is made slightly harder by the fact I'm UK based :-)

This also sounds like a great question to ask on the GPA e-mail list. If you're not a member of the GPA, go run and do that now. It's the best bargain in the industry. I think the associate membership is like $40 for the year and gives you access to a lot of great resources, not the least of which is an e-mail list of hundreds of people in all sectors of the business.

.

Do you have a link to hand?

[Justin D. Jacobson]

Do you have a link to hand?

Here you go: http://www.thegpa.org/index.php

[komradebob]

My personal opinion is that is you are going to publish an RPG gateway game then you need to have new markets staked out with a really good plan on how to distribute to them.

I also think an RPG gateway game needs to be very low cost or have an awesome tie in to another IP. For instanced, an RPG based on World of War Craft, designed as an RPG gateway game could do fairly well because of the power of the name.

I've personally got a business model sitting here waiting to be used someday, with a plan to print and give away 30 million copies of an introductory RPG over a 5 year span and to do it profitably. But it takes $150,000 or so to get that ball rolling and I don't have that chunk to invest in the project quite yet. But when I can invest that $150,000 without fear of bankrupting the company, we'll go full steam ahead.

Anyway, my point is, know what you intend to accomplish with a gateay product fully before to venture down the road of publishing or marketing it. If you can not accomplish those goals with the resources at hand, then perhaps its best not to do the gateway product just yet.

Ryan S. Johnson
Guild of Blades Publishing Group
http://www.guildofblades.com
http://www.1483online.com

Okay, I'll bite...what's the plan?

My thought was using a simple rpg as a promotional item for another product line. What's yours?

[guildofblades]

>>My thought was using a simple rpg as a promotional item for another product line. What's yours?<<

Well, of course, if you are going to give 30 million copies away for a basic intro type RPG, OF COURSE you will support a full edition and use the intro as a gateway for that. That just makes too much common sense. Even wiser would be to have a full line of product already designed and ready to begin releasing just before and continuing thereafter as soon as the give away begins.

But the basic premise of the idea is to print them in a magazine type format and then book and sell advertising space to support the printing and distribution and to eak out a small profit per copy sold. Small being a few pennies. When trying to distribute 30 million copies of anything a goodly chunk of your budget will get spent in your distribution efforts.

As we grow our online gaming business we'll be building out a team of ad sales persons, so we should also be building the relationships that will be neccessary to eventually launch our RPG gateway business model.

We reasoned this is the ONLY way to compete heads up with D&D or overtake it as the market leader. The current crop of RPGers is fairly set in its game preferences, so swaying them isn't a viable business strategy. At least not swaying them in numbers enough to overtake D&D as the most played RPG on the market. So that only leaves going after the new market and to generate more new entrants to your game than the current crop of D&D players recruits to D&D through their gaming groups, we reasoned we would have to absolutely flood the teen and college markets with so many games they would be nearly impossible to ignore and basically recruit a whole new market for our game.

Once you have the player base, all other business opportunities can flow. From selling core rule books, modules, accessories, sourcebooks and world books, to licensing and development of the IP into other mediums. Without the player base, you have nothing.

I don't mind sharing this much of the plan, because, frankly, the real hurdle lies in building an advertising sales force and pool of willing advertisers and building an absolutely huget network of distribution options. That I have been piecing together for the last 6 years, since this idea was first concieved.

Ryan S. Johnson
Guild of Blades Publishing Group
http://www.guildofblades.com
http://www.1483online.com

[komradebob]

Ryan:
Would it be cheaper to create your intro game, then pay to have it published in an already existant magazine that is targetted to that market? I know that sounds odd, but it would be somewhat like piggy backing the game on someone else's already existant distro.

Come to think of it, what are good publications for that market? Rolling Stone?

[Justin D. Jacobson]

Come to think of it, what are good publications for that market? Rolling Stone?

Wow, that's a grognard talking. (I know; I'm one too.) The college-and-younger set aren't touching magazines with a 10-foot pole, generally speaking. Traditional media in general won't yield more than minimal penetration into that market. You want to see how they're getting marketed to, check out Scion's ad campaign by way of example. The bulk of their marketing strategy is direct, in-your-face marketing, e.g., basketball dunk contests, movie premieres, emo concerts, etc. The inability to market to that generation is something that is currently vexing marketing firms everywhere.

[komradebob]

Come to think of it, what are good publications for that market? Rolling Stone?

Wow, that's a grognard talking. (I know; I'm one too.) The college-and-younger set aren't touching magazines with a 10-foot pole, generally speaking. Traditional media in general won't yield more than minimal penetration into that market. You want to see how they're getting marketed to, check out Scion's ad campaign by way of example. The bulk of their marketing strategy is direct, in-your-face marketing, e.g., basketball dunk contests, movie premieres, emo concerts, etc. The inability to market to that generation is something that is currently vexing marketing firms everywhere.

Heh, okay, I'm old...

That does bring up an interesting question then-
How do you get a product that relies on print media to an audience that doesn't use print media?

[guildofblades]

Don't let it fool you. Much of that audience uses some form of print media or another.

For instance, most major metro areas have a freely distributed newspaper that serves the purpose of informing the younger audiences about social events and the city's night life.

Additionally, while there is no one universal print venue to reach the target audience, segments of it can be reached through genre interests of various natures. Plus, if you can figure out a viable means to distribute on most college campuses and in most teen and gothic night clubs, you already have you big toe in the water. Toss in distribution at select music events and at video game outlets and you've begun the reach a sizable chunk of the most desired portion of the target audience.

Ryan S. Johnson
Guild of Blades Publishing Group
http://www.guildofblades.com
http://www.1483online.com

[Justin D. Jacobson]

Put up a MySpace page, create a wicked-cool 30-second animated future and post in on YouTube, send a free copy to Dane Cook and hope he likes it, etc.

[komradebob]

Don't let it fool you. Much of that audience uses some form of print media or another.

For instance, most major metro areas have a freely distributed newspaper that serves the purpose of informing the younger audiences about social events and the city's night life.

Additionally, while there is no one universal print venue to reach the target audience, segments of it can be reached through genre interests of various natures. Plus, if you can figure out a viable means to distribute on most college campuses and in most teen and gothic night clubs, you already have you big toe in the water. Toss in distribution at select music events and at video game outlets and you've begun the reach a sizable chunk of the most desired portion of the target audience.

Ryan S. Johnson
Guild of Blades Publishing Group
http://www.guildofblades.com
http://www.1483online.com

Are you thinking of something like the very small jumpstart kits WW did for its nWoD games? I actually thought those were fairly cool, although obviously only really aimed at existing gamers.

[guildofblades]

We designed an "free" edition of our Worlds of Heroes & Tyrants RPG for this very purpose. As a game system it runs on only D6, so when giving away the booklet, no matter weather the potential player has any clue what gaming is, they have everything needed to start playing. The free edition is fully playable and a complete game. The deluxe edition (the one we woudl sell like a standard core rule book) simply has x3 number of races, some advanced game rules, a world book bundled in and a few other features.

The idea really isn't to force people to upgrade. We want the freebie to be as playable for a newbie as possible. And to provide plenty of enjoyment without need to spend another dime.  Only way I see a game getting enough steam to grow a player base that can compete or overtake D&D. get em playing first, then worry about selling them something later.

Ryan S. Johnson
Guild of Blades Publishing Group
http://www.guildofblades.com
http://www.1483online.com