[FLGS] Getting Indie games stocked?

[iconoplast]

So, I downloaded the PDFs of two games written by posters here.  Read them, even played one.  Went to my game store, and asked them to order me a copy.  See, that's so I don't feel guilty for stealing PDFs.

Problem is, the store couldn't find any mention of Dogs in the Vineyard, and said that I'd have to go to Anvilwerks' website myself to order Donjon.

I didn't ask what distributor the manager used, but she clicked around on the computer for a little while, then said "Can't do it."

She did suggest that anvilwerks would probably be at the next GAMA, and get distribution there.  I sort of hemmed about that, and brought up the whole author-owned thing, and said I didn't think so.

I make use of my store's gaming space, I've met lots of great local gamers there, and because of showing up there to play Warmachine (which is, really, set up for 'go to game store, find game' experiences) have been invited to play in a tabletop game.  So I really want to support the store if at all possible, and get them their cut of any RPG purchases I make, marke-up or no.

Is there any way to simultaneously (a) support Indie Game Designers, and (b) support my FLGS?

[TonyLB]

Welcome to the Forge, and thank you for wanting to make this connection.  I recommend putting your FLGS in contact with Indie Press Revolution.

[Valamir]

and/or  Key20.

Universalis has been regularly ordered by Alliance and Blackhawk (and hence available to FLGS) for some time now.

I think both Key20 and IPR will deal directly with retailers also. 

[iconoplast]

Thanks for the welcome.  I'd have posted earlier, but I've just had a series of awful awkward not-getting-what-I-want-out-of-the-game experiences since I decided to start gaming again.  It's gotten better since I started reading the Forge, believe it or not.  Not that the games have gotten better, but because I'm more aware that, well, it's D&D.  So I expect more or less what I get, am pleasantly surprised at how fun a game it is to play with friends.

I appreciate the links.  I knew about IPR, but wasn't sure if it was for retailers or for cutomers, I'll ask her about getting DitV for me.  Donjon, sadly - looks like I'll be ordering that one myself.

[Nathan P.]

Some designers will make individual deals with retailers, as well. It may be worth either asking your FLGS to get in touch with Clinton (and provide the info to do so), or ask Clinton if he does deals with retailers and give him the store's info.

[Paul Czege]

Half Meme Press retailer ordering information is here:

http://www.halfmeme.com/retailer-orders.html

Paul

[Justin D. Jacobson]

As a general method of recourse, you can contact the publisher and ask them who they use for distribution. Then, when you go to your FLGS, you can reference the specific distributor. The problem you will still have is that some FLGSs refuse to special order from distributors they don't use regularly. E.g, if they only order from Alliance and the product you want isn't listed in Alliance's catalog, they won't bother. (Aside: which is one reason many FLGSs are in the state they're in.)

[LloydBrown]

The problem you will still have is that some FLGSs refuse to special order from distributors they don't use regularly. E.g, if they only order from Alliance and the product you want isn't listed in Alliance's catalog, they won't bother. (Aside: which is one reason many FLGSs are in the state they're in.)

A retailer can't just call up a distributor he doesn't use and place an order.  You have to apply for an account--which you might not get.  Also, you'd have to either pay shipping nearly equal to the profit of a single game or "pad" an order up to about $300 to reach the free shipping level with most distributors. 

How long would YOU stay in business if your choices were a) make no profit on a sale or b) spend $285 for a single $15 sale and hope to sell the rest at some point in the future?

Also, I network with hundreds of stores through the Game Industry Network, the Game Store Resource Forum, and my own efforts.  I don't know of any store that relies solely on Alliance for their products.  I know one that "claims" to use Alliance only because Alliance's order system meshes perfectly with his POS, but he fails to count the direct orders he places with manufacturers. 

[Justin D. Jacobson]

A retailer can't just call up a distributor he doesn't use and place an order.  You have to apply for an account--which you might not get.  Also, you'd have to either pay shipping nearly equal to the profit of a single game or "pad" an order up to about $300 to reach the free shipping level with most distributors. 

How long would YOU stay in business if your choices were a) make no profit on a sale or b) spend $285 for a single $15 sale and hope to sell the rest at some point in the future?

Almost any distributor I know of would be happy to get a store's business. So, getting an account is not a Herculean task used to dissuade new retailers from signing up. The Hobson's choice you present is not an accurate one.

Also, I network with hundreds of stores through the Game Industry Network, the Game Store Resource Forum, and my own efforts.  I don't know of any store that relies solely on Alliance for their products.  I know one that "claims" to use Alliance only because Alliance's order system meshes perfectly with his POS, but he fails to count the direct orders he places with manufacturers. 

With regard to Alliance, the "e.g." in my post indicated I was just using that as an example. I've heard many stories from publishers finding out through the grapevine that some distributors will say a game is OOP just because they don't carry it or they're out of stock. This pops up all the time on the GPA e-mail list.

[Ron Edwards]

Hey Lloyd and Justin, there's no need to develop that debate in this thread. You've each made your point. Since the new fellow is talking about his specific store, we don't need to see debate about "stores in general" or "some store you heard about," or anything like that.

Hey iconoplast, the thing to do is to alert your retailer to Key 20 and to Indie Press Revolution, and perhaps to specialty publisher sites like the one Paul linked to. After that, you've done what you can do, and it's all on the retailer to decide what to do. It may suit his business model to acquire these games, and it might not. You can't control that.

If he gets them, well and good, buy them there; if he will not, then buy them from the websites, and use the store to buy stuff the store does carry.

There's no downside to this advice. If, for example, the retailer doesn't want to carry My Life with Master for whatever reason, then you're not harming him by buying it from the website.

Best, Ron

[iconoplast]

It's funny - I post here, I go to the store & talk to the manager, and I'm confused.  Mostly about what a distributor is, and whether Key20 and IPR are "Distributors".  Sorry to drag this thread on, but I'm a little lost as to how all this works, and while I have a clear picture of the result I want (My FLGS stocking games I want to buy), I don't really understand what I should be asking, or who I should be talking to, to get this to happen.

The store (I believe - I'm not really sure about how any of this works) sets up an account, then orders games from distributors at some kind of discount.  She (the manager) listed a lot of different distributors she had an account with (Including Alliance, and I don't remember the other names - neither Key20 nor IPR were mentioned), and said that she was willing to set up an account with whoever to order games.  Key20's website is cool, and they say they support retailers, but then they have a link to 'become a distributor' - is that the same as being a retailer?

I guess what I'm asking (and I'm not even sure this is the right forum to ask about this) is,

Can a store set up an account with Key20?
Can they order some kind of 'package' of games to stock at some sort of discount?
I mean, if the store's just going to take my money and then order something off a website for me, as though I were ordering it myself, then I'll just save them the effort and send Clinton and Vincent my money. 

[andrew_kenrick]

The store (I believe - I'm not really sure about how any of this works) sets up an account, then orders games from distributors at some kind of discount.  She (the manager) listed a lot of different distributors she had an account with (Including Alliance, and I don't remember the other names - neither Key20 nor IPR were mentioned)

Key20 acts as a fulfillment house, providing games to distributors who in turn provide them to stores, rather than providing them directly to stores. I know they deal with Alliance (amongst a few others), so if you tell your store manager to contact Alliance they should be able to order anything that Key20 itself stocks.

IPR deals directly to both customers and to stores, but not to distributors. Therefore, your store manager should be able to contact them and set up an account and then order whatever she wants directly from them.

In both cases the store should be able to get it cheaper than you would be able to directly - after all, that's how they make their money.

Hope that helps.

[Blankshield]

What I would really suggest as the best route, is to go to your FLGS and say "Look, I'm just a guy who wants to buy a game.  I'd like to buy it from you.  These guys can get it to you, here's their contact information, please talk to them."

Key20 and IPR both have clear websites with contact info; the only way you or your FLGS is going to get better information than this thread already contains is to contact them directly.

James