[TSOY] Long term campaigns

[whytcrow]

We're just finishing up a medium-ish long campaign of TSOY, and I really like the way the system works.  However, we've really hit the keys for all their worth, as good players should, and have definately pushed our chars as far as they can go without having anyone transcend.  All good for this campaign, but it made me wonder how viable it is to have a long-term campaign using the rules.  (Assuming people keep the same characters throughout the campaign.  If people are switching chars as one's story was fully told, then it wouldn't matter).

I understand about adjusting the number of XP per Advance cost, though I'd like suggestions for what seems to be a good alternative.  (Is 10/Adv. good?)

Also, I'm afraid of slowing down progress *too* much, and to devalue the Keys.  (After all, hitting a 5pt Key when Advances are 5pts is cool; then it gets a little less cool).

Also, via the wiki and some posts I read, I got a little confused about buying off Keys.  What is the purpose of specifying that they give "10 Xps" vs "2 Advances?"  Does buying off Keys *not* scale along with the cost of Advances?

In any event, any thoughts are welcome!

Jennifer

[Andrew Cooper]

According to the rules as written in the book, no, the buyoff doesn't scale with the increase in the cost of an Advance.  You get 10 points for a Buyoff.  If Advances cost 5 points, then you get 2 Advances.  If they cost 10 points, then you only get 1.

If you make the Buyoff scale with the increase in Advance cost then you really, really encourage buying Keys off.  After all, you can only get 5 points maximum for hitting a Key but you can get 20 or 30 points (depending on the cost of an Advance) by buying it off.  So, if you don't mind players buying off Keys left and right constantly, then scale it. 

[Chris Peterson]

Jennifer: what is your concern about long campaigns? That advancing characters takes too long? Or that Transcendence *prevents* long campaigns because your character can be take out abruptly?

[oliof]

Transcendence does not prevent long campagins. Only Campaigns with a static set of PCs.

[Andrew Cooper]

Actually, Transcendance doesn't even prevent static PC's since you can choose not to get high enough stats to actually Transcend.

[whytcrow]

Thank you all for your input!

My concern isn't that chars progress too slowly; it is that they might progress too quickly.  Now, in our game, the characters have changed a lot over the course of things (good!), but they've also become quite the masters at skills.  Transcendance doesn't bother me too much, as it is an opt-in kind of thing that means a player is willing to have the character done.  (I'd probably rule it doesn't happen instantly, since that may leave a player with nothing to do for a while).

I guess the corrollary question is:  how long are your campaigns?  (Using the same characters)

Jennifer

[shadowcourt]

Jennifer,

Actually, according to the rules as I've always read them, once a character Transcends, they disappear at some point within the next 24 hours. So you're right on the money with ruling that "it doesn't happen instantly"-- it's a fiat to allow characters to wrap up the loose ends they might have and make a satisfying exit from the game. Not everyone can be assured of a satisfying dramatic finale on that final roll, after all.

I'm actually in the early stages of a long-term TSOY campaign right now (we're playing session 6 tomorrow), though the shifting schedule and rotating cast of players (we have 7, but on average 3-5 show up for any session, which is a system we worked out ahead of time) means that advances haven't been zooming yet. There are a lot of new players, and they're taking some time to really get their feet wet (also, I'm probably guilty of not aiming as directly for their Keys as I should, but we all have goals to aspire to...). I personally recommend the 10 experience point advance for a game of decent length-- not too fast and not too slow. 15 seems agonizing to me, but 5 is a little too fast for my tastes, especially if you write generous Key scenes.

-shadowcourt (aka josh)

[Doyce]

I guess the corrollary question is:  how long are your campaigns?  (Using the same characters)

Jennifer

Hi Jennifer,

You might want to take a look at this thread on Story Games, where I pretty much ask exactly that question: http://www.story-games.com/forums/comments.php?DiscussionID=1005

[japrufrock]

I've been playing the long term campaign with Shadowcourt (josh), and one of the ideas he came up with is a measured advance system for abilities.  The way it works is like this:

When I want to advance an ability to 5, I need to have 4 abilities at 4 before I can bump one up to 5.  If I want to go to 6, I have to have 5 abilities at 5 and so on and so forth.  We decided to use this system for a number of reasons.  First of all, it prevents players from pumping up the same ability every other advance and becoming very unbablanced.  Also, as characters advance, the opponents to the pc's tend to be well rounded, and this is can cause problems for those pc's that try to max out only a single skill. 

It slows things down a little bit, but still allows characters to advance.  It seems like it's been working pretty well.

[Chris Peterson]

When I want to advance an ability to 5, I need to have 4 abilities at 4 before I can bump one up to 5.  If I want to go to 6, I have to have 5 abilities at 5 and so on and so forth.  We decided to use this system for a number of reasons.  First of all, it prevents players from pumping up the same ability every other advance and becoming very unbablanced.  Also, as characters advance, the opponents to the pc's tend to be well rounded, and this is can cause problems for those pc's that try to max out only a single skill. 

This is exactly how FATE handles "aspect" advancement. I think they call it the "pyramid".

[shadowcourt]

Chris,

Give the man a ceegar--that's exactly where we stole it from. The veteran TSOY Storyguide who first inducted me into the system suggested the FATE model for handling things, when I expressed a concern that campaign play would become an "arms race" for the highest ability score possible. Especially as we've been flirting with some PvP style scenarios throughout this game (though that's certainly not its main bent), and I didn't want players who were expanding "laterally" (as I like to think of it-- new Secrets, new Keys, increased pools) to be in the scary scenario of always trailing characters who kept pumping every alternate advance into one "A" ability and rocking the house with it.

So far it seems to have eased some of those tensions in game already, just from off-hand player remarks, so I'm regarding it as a win.

-shadowcourt (aka josh)

[Judd]

If you don't want the game to end, don't put your skill at Grand Master.

And isn't there a Secret that allows you to have a skill at Grand Master without the perfect roll meaning Ascension?

[oliof]

Secret of the Secret of the Bodhisavatta

[Frank T]

I don’t think Jennifer’s main concern is transcendence. It’s more along the lines of accomplishment. How long does a character take to feel “finished”? I can’t say, I never played TSoY that long. However, I imagine that setting an advance at 10 XP will work just fine for you.

- Frank