Horizontal format books (split)

[Russell Collins]

I have similar layout concerns to Jason's so I'd like to continue this discussion. I like the advice already given but there is a content reason that the landscape format appeals to me; it is similar to some financial ledgers or business checkbooks. There are also several specific design ideas that may affect opinions on the use of landscape format.

I'm considering Jason's two column design, the wider left column containing the rules and text for all players, the narrower right column for GM specific rules, notes and instruction. This may mean lots of white space on pages without much GM instruction and some layout jugling if the GM info gets dense. Another variant that came to mind was inner and outer columns, but that may lead to hiccups in a reader's scanning at the page turns.

I'm also thinking a spiral binding that would allow the book to lay flat, rather than breaking the spine, but I recognize that has a "cheap" feel to many buyers. Would a solid, heavy cover offset that feel? I have also considered this format in 6" X 9" pages, but that may lead to columns too narrow to be conviently legible. I don't really have the experience to say.

I have little layout experience personally and only an image in my head about how the final product will look. I'd appreciate your suggestions specific to my concept.

[joepub]

I am doing much the same layout as Jason's suggests, but in 8.5x11 for the game I'm currently working on.
Or at least... I am right now.
I might change my mind several times before I finish.

What I've done is a 5" column for body text... and a 2.5" column for flavour text, images, and design notes. (leaving 1" total for gutter and margins.)
Spanning both columns, on the bottom, as short, snippy quotes.

[Joshua A.C. Newman]

Look, I've got stuff to say about this, but this is thread necromancy. Russel, can you start this thread anew so we can talk?

[Ron Edwards]

All of the above were split from Horizontal format books.

Best, Ron

[Jason Morningstar]

Rockin'.  Let's talk about this some more.  Joe, the 11" wide form factor seems awkward to me.  I have some books bound that way and they are hard to deal with.

[joepub]

Hm...
I realize now that I said my columns were 5 and 2.5.
They are actually 7 and 3.
I am a bit slow today.

Jason - There are a few reasons I want to do this.
I want to have a visually really rich page. I want flavour text, and rules text, and images.... all on the page.

I want a single page-spread to contain all the rules for a SECTION of gameplay. So that for "Test X" or "Mechanical Situation Y" you don't have to flip pages to cover all the rules on it. I want the diagrams and rules and an example all RIGHT THERE, to be used. Instead of... to be read.

Storage would not be a problem, because Boulevard comes in a box with lots of nifty stuff. The book gets stored with the game, or on a table. Most books of this format would have a lot of difficulty with storage.

Also... landscape means flippable.
landscape makes a good coffee-table book.
landscape means I can have multiple columns without feeling cramped.

8.5x11 means I can hold a lot of information on a page while still having a lot of white space and breathing room.
I want to have lots of art and images in the book. With a smaller page size it'd mean having really small images or having to choose between putting an image or text on a given page. Both undesirable options, in this case.

Of course, there are a lot of disadvantages to this approach, as well.
As I see them:
-Really weighty, clunky. A tome.
-8.5x11 is much less accessible and inviting than say... 6.625x10.25 (Perfect's dimensions).
-Hard to carry arround and show people while on the go (but... again, it goes with a box o' stuff.)

It might not end up being 8.5x11.
If game boxes only come in 10.25" diameter (most do, that I can find so far) then I might do 8.5x10.

But...
Opinions?
What pros and cons do you see?
What games, books and stuff has published in this format before, and what was your gut reaction?

[MatrixGamer]

I recognize that has a "cheap" feel to many buyers. Would a solid, heavy cover offset that feel?

You know if a book had a thick binders board color cover on front and back I think that would help counteract the cheap feel. I know I've seen art books done that way. With a little work it could be done up like a funky Japanese binding style. (But that gets back into hand binding - good for art books done in print runs of 100 but no larger.)

I think you're on to something here.

Chris Engle
Hamster Press = Engle Matrix Games

[Russell Collins]

Thank you Ron, for the split.

My searches aren't turning up any satisfactory results. I'd like to see if a spiral bound hard cover is prohibitively expensive. That would stop my questions right there!

I'll email a few publishers for possible quotes. If anyone knows of a publisher advertising this style I'd appreciate a link. My searches are misleading.

[Russell Collins]

Ah. Right there on Lulu. Serves me right for trusting Google.

[David Artman]

Anyone seen a printer--POD or not--who can do HEAVY (I mean HEAVY) lamination of a front and back cover, for spiral binding? For instance, I know that Avalon will do a PlastiCoil binding with a 3 or 5 mm laminate... but is that HEAVY? 5 mm is about 1/5", right? That seems pretty heavy, but I want something neigh-unto the thickness of a hard cover or one of those "insert" hard lamination sheets that'll stand up on its own edge.

[Background: GLASS will need a rugged format for use "in the wild" (outdoors, etc) and I like the lay-flat aspect of spiral binding, when it comes to working intensively with the book (ex: character or Ability creation). It's also much kinder on the covers--a lot of my frequently-referenced perfect bound soft covers have pronounced curvature of the cover corners, even some delamination of the paper and tearing. But I still have spiral bound notebooks from the late 80s whose covers are in better shape, because they never feel the strain of being laid flat. (A HEAVY laminate would not have this problem, either way, but I've never heard of perfect binding for thick plastic covers, just case binding.)]

Thanks;
David

[Russell Collins]

I'm back to searching for a similar thing.

I'm even contemplating screw post binding, commonly used in scrapbooks and albums, but that's definitely custom work and therefore far outside my budget.

[KeithBVaughn]

Remember hard case books are only a shell over however the pages are bound. I've seen it where the cloth of the back spine is flexible and covers a coil binding.
keith