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Started by Frank T, August 31, 2006, 02:15:57 PM
QuoteTell me, what was feedback like among the group about issues of this kind? I don't mean deconstructive, analytical discussion after play. I mean during play, in terms of how people reacted and "replied," either through normal dialogue or through the medium of their characters and other aspects of play.Did anyone else in the group provide such intensive portraiture with his or her character? If so, did your character and theirs come into conflict in any way?
QuoteI think it's nearly impossible to transport the full detail of a character like that into the SIS,
Quotea lot of OOC commentary, much like it is encouraged through fan mail or similar mechanics, only without the mechanics. These were mostly just showings of approval of the other's contribution.
QuoteConsistent engagement (of whatever sort, if there are different sorts) about what is then what leads to identifying the Creative Agenda, through the cycles of reward.
Quoteany actual addressing of human issues is not the point
QuoteNarr CAs consitently engage with Premise (that is, the consistently engage with wider human issues in order to say something about them). A well-designed Narr-supporting System (whether textually written or developed within the group) actively rewards players who do this - reward being anything from "the Nod" to applause, to a mechanic like Fan Mail in PtA.
QuoteSim CAs do not consistently engage with Premise. This is not to say they avoid it pathologically (which I think perhaps has led to much misinterpretation of Sim as rather empty) but merely that it is not their chief objective to asess and express ideas about human issues. Instead, their reward cycles are st up to express approval of actions which are in tune with a Dream.
QuoteThe Dream itself may represent a position on a human issue that is not deviated from ("Let's all play a game in which we demonstrate how guns are evil") or it may be agnostic on human issues and instead treasure other ideals - either way, any actual addressing of human issues is not the point.
QuoteA player who tries deliberately to address Premise in a Simulationist group will encounter frustration when the Theme they resolve their Premise into a Theme that contradicts directly with the Dream, and simple disinterest if the Theme does not relate to the Dream.
Quote from: Ron Edwards on September 12, 2006, 10:27:51 AMSingle major caveat: all of that is observationally and definitionally correct, but it does not describe the actual sensation of doing so. No one has to state the wider human issue up-front. No one has to remind oneself to buckle down and analyze it, or say something about it in the abstract. There is no analysis built into the process of Narrativist play.
QuoteAlso, all reward systems are ultimately social. The reward mechanics work insofar as they tap into that, or reinforce it, or give it a specific shape.
QuoteSingle minor caveat: "in tune with" can take many different shapes. In some cases, it's "emulate," in the sense of reproducing without errors or anything different from that starting Dream-stuff. In others, it's "tweak," in the sense of introducing material that's not in the starting Dream-stuff and enjoying the robustness of the Dream in dealing with that new stuff.
QuoteCorrect. I want to emphasize that the Dream can be about all sorts of things... <snip>
QuoteThere's one more possibility - the Theme produced both relates to and is consistent with the Dream. Why wouldn't that work? Jam for everyone, right? It doesn't work because it's not socially recognized and reinforced, and hence no real reward system is in place. The player ends up being his or her sole audience member, and the prognosis for such a situation includes (a) bored incoherence, quite likely long-lasting; (b) Prima Donna behavior; and (c) usually developing from the previous, Typhoid Mary behavior.
QuoteIt is simply not enough to say, "I do bastardly things," but that you as the player must find the means, given the circumstances and the limitations of the Setting, to portray a convincing bastard to all the other players. In my book I find this is effort to be extremely difficult but I also think this is exactly where the players are truly challenged and must reach deep creatively within themselves to accomplish.