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275647 Posts in 27717 Topics by 4285 Members Latest Member: - Jason DAngelo Most online today: 83 - most online ever: 565 (October 17, 2020, 02:08:06 PM)
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Author Topic: Exhaustive list of everything you can do with Story Tokens?  (Read 12269 times)
Sindyr
Member

Posts: 795


« on: September 27, 2006, 10:32:49 AM »

I went to the Capes FAQ page looking for this, and did not find it.

Here's what I can come up with off the top of my head.  Can anyone confirm or deny, or add things I have not mentioned?

-Taking an extra action for one character you are playing.  Can be done only after each character has had their normal turns, near page's end.
-Bringing in a new character to play alongside your existing one.  Can be done at any time(?)  However many characters you have, each one gets one action, on your turn, in any order.
-Taking an extra Claim - can only be done during the Claiming phase.
-(?) Getting another reaction roll?
-(?) Using a used up Ability? (A power you have already used this page, a non-powered ability you have used this scene)

The above two aren't canon, but the text does say:
Quote
One of the resources a player can acquire in the game is a pile of Story Tokens. These allow the player to take more control of the turn order. In most situations where each player gets to do something once (i.e. gets a turn) a Story Token can be spent to do it again. In this way, Story Tokens give increased authorship.

I am not saying necessarily that the above two are good *strategy*, just that that are kind of implied by the above quote.

What do you guys think?  Anything else you can do with tokens that I left out?

Should this list be added to the FAQ?
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-Sindyr
Hans
Member

Posts: 576


« Reply #1 on: September 27, 2006, 11:09:08 AM »

-Taking an extra action for one character you are playing.  Can be done only after each character has had their normal turns, near page's end.
-Bringing in a new character to play alongside your existing one.  Can be done at any time(?)  However many characters you have, each one gets one action, on your turn, in any order.
-Taking an extra Claim - can only be done during the Claiming phase.
-(?) Getting another reaction roll?
-(?) Using a used up Ability? (A power you have already used this page, a non-powered ability you have used this scene)

...Should this list be added to the FAQ?

I think the full list would be:
* Buying more characters at the beginning of a scene.  Page 18, grey box about scenes.
* Making extra claims at the beginning of a page.  Page 18, grey box about pages.
* Making extra conflicts at the beginning of a page.  Page 18, grey box about pages. (This one is subtle, and I missed it the first 100 times or so I read the box).
* Taking extra actions after everyone has taken their free action for a page.  Page 24, third paragraph.

I would guess that any of the other uses you suggest (reactions, unlocking a power) would be house rules.  The implication in the section of the rules you mention doesn't seem strong enough to me to suggest they are intended.

As to adding to the FAQ, my general guideline on that has been to wait a while until Tony answers, and if Tony doesn't say anything, assume the answer given by someone else was correct and add it in.  So feel free to add this thread, as soon as you think the answer is authoritative.  I personally never treat my own answers as authoritative because a) thats biased as all get out and b) I've been known to be horribly, horribly wrong.

Doesn't stop me from answering though.  I think there is a pathology there, somewhere.
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Sindyr
Member

Posts: 795


« Reply #2 on: September 27, 2006, 11:35:12 AM »

OK, sounds good.  My one point of concern is that I was pretty sure that I saw somewhere (probably on this forum) that you can bring in an extra character with a story token *at any time*, not just at the beginning of the scene.

Anyone else have a similar memory?
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-Sindyr
Sindyr
Member

Posts: 795


« Reply #3 on: September 27, 2006, 11:46:24 AM »

By the way, slightly off topic - has anyone used story token in a way that makes them more powerful - or at least, more dependable?  I was struck by the fact that a fellow player used 2 story tokens for 2 extra turns, spent debt, rolled horribly, and got nothing really for his debt and lost story tokens.

Has anyone every considered giving story tokens some kind of absolute use, in addition? Something like: spend a story token and:
-raise one die by 2 (1?) - up to six (five?)
-lower an opponents die by the same amount
-raise one die to a 4 (or 5?)
-lower one die to a 3 (or 2?)
-other ideas?
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-Sindyr
Hans
Member

Posts: 576


« Reply #4 on: September 27, 2006, 12:30:17 PM »

OK, sounds good.  My one point of concern is that I was pretty sure that I saw somewhere (probably on this forum) that you can bring in an extra character with a story token *at any time*, not just at the beginning of the scene.

Anyone else have a similar memory?

It was probably me who said it, and I'm pretty sure I was wrong.  I used to play it that way myself.  However, the text on page 20 seems pretty clear that you pay story tokens for characters at the beginning of the scene, and this kind of activity is only mentioned at that point.
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Sindyr
Member

Posts: 795


« Reply #5 on: September 27, 2006, 01:33:53 PM »

Hmm, that changes things a great deal - and to my mind, not for the better.

I thought be able to threaten to bring in a new character spontaneously, off the cuff, was making for good, exciting gameplay - also, if that isn't allowed, than that is de facto disallowing characters to join running scenes - something that may be narratively desired.

For example, having Lucky Charm appear in the scene on page 5, instead of page 1, is potentially more ineteresting that having a rule that all characters must be in place from page 1 on.

Furthermore, I imagine that characters join the scene in mid-scene all the time in comic books. Why not in Capes?
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-Sindyr
Matthew Glover
Member

Posts: 160


« Reply #6 on: September 27, 2006, 01:34:19 PM »

Okay, I dunno where I got this, but for some reason I was under the impression that you could spend a story token to bring in other characters at the beginning of a page.
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Sindyr
Member

Posts: 795


« Reply #7 on: September 27, 2006, 01:48:42 PM »

Here are some posts I found:
http://www.indie-rpgs.com/forum/index.php?topic=19102.0
http://www.indie-rpgs.com/forum/index.php?topic=21266.0
http://www.indie-rpgs.com/forum/index.php?topic=14385.0

Looks like the from-the-mouth-of-Tony way is to allow new characters to be brought in at the start of each page.

Still not sure if my group *may* haouse rule being able to bring in a new character *anytime* - or not.
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-Sindyr
Sindyr
Member

Posts: 795


« Reply #8 on: September 27, 2006, 01:54:20 PM »

Found in the erratta:
Jump right in, the water's fine (credit to Jay Loomis):
p. 22: "A player may spend a Story Token at this time to add a new Conflict" should read "A player may spend
a Story Token at this time to add a new Conflict or character".

<the time so referenced is immediately before or after the Claiming phase at the beginning of the page, before anyone has taken their actions.>
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-Sindyr
Sindyr
Member

Posts: 795


« Reply #9 on: September 27, 2006, 01:58:12 PM »

Cool!  Something else for the errata!

You can bring them in at the beginning of any Page.  Not, however, in the middle of a page.  There are some strategies that got used doing that in play-testing that disrupt the flow of play pretty brutally, so it got removed as an option.

Tony - could you be more specific.  I am thinking about asking the group I game with to houserule that a token can be used to bring in a character any time, so long as it's not in the middle of someone's action.  What are the disruptive downsides to this that are not present when you let them only bring in characters at the start of the page?
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-Sindyr
Filip Luszczyk
Member

Posts: 746

roll-player


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« Reply #10 on: September 28, 2006, 05:25:30 AM »

I think it would make buying additional actions with Story Tokens unnecessary, since bringing in another character would always benefit the player more (the character, and his additional action, stay on the table in the following pages). This in turn would probably increase the general number of characters in the scenes, possibly up to a point when managing them would become unwieldy, and important individual characters would get less spotlight time in relation to others. What's more, it would be possible to bring fresh, debtless character with all non-powered abilities unchecked at any time, so effectively players would be able to re-roll fives at the expense of a Story Token, without concerning themselves with resources left to individual characters. Also, there would be some initiative issues with bringing new characters after the starting phase of a page.

Quote
-raise one die by 2 (1?) - up to six (five?)

In a way, this can be done by buying additional action with ST and using it to increase the Inspiration with an ability.
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Hans
Member

Posts: 576


« Reply #11 on: September 28, 2006, 08:25:24 AM »

Found in the erratta:
Jump right in, the water's fine (credit to Jay Loomis):
p. 22: "A player may spend a Story Token at this time to add a new Conflict" should read "A player may spend
a Story Token at this time to add a new Conflict or character".

Doh!  Errata...I ALWAYS check the errata!  Well, not always, I guess, since I missed this one.  Good catch.
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TonyLB
Moderator
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Posts: 3702


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« Reply #12 on: September 28, 2006, 09:21:54 AM »

Tony - could you be more specific.  I am thinking about asking the group I game with to houserule that a token can be used to bring in a character any time, so long as it's not in the middle of someone's action.  What are the disruptive downsides to this that are not present when you let them only bring in characters at the start of the page?

In most circumstances, if you are allowed to bring in a new character and take their action by spending story tokens then that's more cost-effective than spending a story token to take another action with an existing character.  So that would drive people to have more and more (and more!) characters when the action gets hot and heavy, which is precisely the time that you don't want things getting cluttered up with a thousand clamoring voices in the story.

Now, potentially, you could say "Well, after the beginning of the page, spending a story token doesn't get you a free action.  You'd need to spend two ... one to bring the character in, and one to give them an action."  That's reduces the incentive to bring more characters in during a heated conflict.  But, though reduced, the incentive is still a very real one since that new character can come in with clean debt and no check-offs, when your existing characters are starting to suffer in both departments.  Again, I don't think that during the heavy action of a hotly contested conflict is the right time to be cluttering the head-space in that way.

Make sense?
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Sindyr
Member

Posts: 795


« Reply #13 on: September 28, 2006, 09:39:31 AM »

Yeah, pretty much.

There is also an allure to the idea that bringing in a new character to save your bacon can't be completely reactive if you can only do it at the start of the page.  So at the start of each page ya gotta ask yourself - with what I see happening, should I bring in another char?

The only downside is I am wondering if tactically this will encourage people to do this *more* - since for *one* story token you get an extra action for all the remaining scenes - instead of spending a story token for an extra action at the end of the turn.

I mean, I would say about half of the scenes I have participated in wound up with me wanting more actions, and spending story tokens.  If I simply spend the token at the start of the scene, I will have an extra action every page for the whole scene.

Hmmm.  Seems a very obvious strategy, only ameliorated by the idea that everyone will probably do it once one person does.  And since you can bring in an existing character, with debt pre-set and spendable; or a brand new on the spot created chaarater with no debt and lots of space.

Plus with two characters, you could have as much as 6-10 dice on one side of a conflict.

Sounds fun to explore.
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-Sindyr
Joel P. Shempert
Member

Posts: 451


WWW
« Reply #14 on: September 28, 2006, 12:48:22 PM »

hey, I just had an idea for a fun (I hope) mod! How 'bout if you could spend a token to bring in a new char at the beginning of a page after the first. . .but ONLY if you had not brought any characters in on the scene already and ONLY once per scene? Or, perhaps even better: You could pay a story token at the beginning of a scene. . .but hold the character in reserve until the page where you're ready for his/her entrance. Sure, you wouldn't get the actions you could've from the previous page, but you WOULD get greater narrative flexibility in introing the character, and you'd have a fresh, un-debted and un-checked character to use.

But I haven't gotten to play the game yet, so there may be a dozen reasons this isn't a good idea. Might be worth a thought though.

Peace,
-Joel
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