[Touch of Noir] Traits and desperate acts

[Caesar_X]

After analyzing my Touch of Noir playtest from the other night (http://www.indie-rpgs.com/forum/index.php?topic=21915.0), I realized that I wanted to see character traits more defined during play instead of simply during character generation.  After a long IM chat with my friend Andrew Mayer last night, I started to develop a possible strategy.

(from my latest draft of the rules)
Traits:
An important part of your character is their traits.  These are broken up into three types: Your past, present and future.  Some of these are defined during character generation.  Others are left open to define during play.  And still others will be generated as a result of consequences after conflicts.

These traits can be used during conflicts to help your character gain an edge.  But they are a double-edged sword, as they are both your power and your weakness.  As you define and use these traits in play, they will accumulate as if inside of your character's soul.  And at some point they will come out and effect your character in a revealing and often negative way.  Such is the nature of these things.

The strength of these traits is based on how important they are to your character.  A d6 trait is necessary, a d8 trait is important, and a d10 trait is critical.  The wording of the trait depends on which type it is.  'Past' traits should be in the past tense, such as "I was...".  'Present' traits should be in present tense, such as "I am...".  'Future' traits should be in future tense, such as "I will...".  This is an important delineation and will help you understand what type of trait you are trying to create and how others will perceive it.

Most traits will start out at a d6 or perhaps d8 level.  Traits can only rise to d10 during play.  Perhaps your character knew what was inside of them, but it only became critical after they had a great moment of realization.

Example traits
Past:
I left the only woman I ever loved d8
I hated my father d6

Present:
No one tells me what to do d6
I control any woman I desire d8

Future:
I will get out of this stinking town d8
I will cry on the grave of my dead mother d10


As you use a trait, you will accumulate points of 'Desperation'.  At the end of that conflict and any succeeding conflict, you will roll a 'Die of Fate' equal to the number of Desperation Points (DP) your character currently has, rounding off.  So if you have 1-6 DP, roll a d6.  7-8 DP, roll a d8.  And 9 or more DP, roll a d10.  If the die comes up as a '1', your character temporarily loses control and a desperate act ensues.  This act must directly come from one of their traits.  The level of desperation also depends on the number of DP you currently have.  So while it's easier to lose control with less points, the stakes are also lower.  When you accumulate a lot of DP, you are more likely to keep it in control, but the effects will be much worse.  Will you cause an embarrassing ruckus in the nightclub or put a knife in someone's back?  It all depends on the level of desperation.

After the act is done, the DP for your character goes back to zero. 

-Any thoughts on how it might work or potential problems with it?

Thanks,
Chris
Caesar_X@yahoo.com

Read more about 'Touch of Noir' here: http://troupeberkeley.infogami.com/Noir

[iain]

The rolling of a different die type depending on desperatino points seems a littleb bit clunky to me. An alternative way to do it, would be to get them to roll 1d6 and add their DPs to it. If they get over a certain amount, then they lose control. I think this has a much better feel to it: as desperation builds, your probability of losing control increases. As you have it, when desperation goes up, the probability of rolling a 1 goes down! It might be interesting to give control of someones desperation scene to someone other than the player. Is this a GMed game?

Cheers
Iain

[Caesar_X]

Hey Iain,

Good to hear from you.  I should have done a better job of explaining my intent there.  When you have fewer DP, it's easier to blow your cool, but the consequences are lower.  When you accumulate a lot of DP, there is less of a chance of losing it, but the stakes can be monumental.  So it was my intent to have the chances lower as you accumulate desperation.

Think of it in terms of a relationship with your spouse or whomever.  There are plenty of easy opportunities to bicker about small stuff like who takes out the trash.  But when you have a huge blow-out about something that is key to the future of the relationship, it is probably because it is intrinsically a more important issue and it has probably simmered inside of someone for long enough to become larger than it should be.

So that is why in the game it's easier to trigger an embarassing scene in a restaurant than a planted piece of evidence or a cold-blooded murder.

Did that help at all?

Chris
Caesar_X@yahoo.com

[iain]

I see where you are going with this mechanic, I just think from the player's point of view it makes a lot more sense for the chance of a bust up to increase as despereation goes up. This just seems more straight forward to me.

Cheers
Iain

[JustinB]

I agree with Iain. Why bother forcing the players to regularly RP having a minor argument with a spouse? That's real life. What value does it add to play?

[Caesar_X]

Iain and Justin,

You both have good points so I will give try to explain rather than defend, because I could be totally wrong here.  Accumulation of guilt through desperation is a key component of the game, and I was trying to work in a "pressure-release valve" if you will, to add tension.  To me, having scenes where the character loses control and complicates their situation is interesting (or maybe that is just me).  Especially when you consider that all of those desperation points are going to get "awarded" to other characters who can then use them against you.  And the trade off is that when you are accumulating desperation and not blowing off steam through this mechanic, you are increasing the chance that your character will go over the edge and trigger their downfall.  And the downfall of a character is the endgame state.

My worry was that simply accumulating desperation towards the downfall was a one-way street with no real dynamic to it.  I will continue to give this thought and look forward to actually trying it out in playtesting. 

Chris
Caesar_X@yahoo.com

[Clyde L. Rhoer]

Hi Chris,

I like the sound of the desperation mechanic. What feeling are you going for the game? If it's not a really dark or bleak setting then you might want to consider allowing the characters to have other ways to blow off steam, like maybe they lift weights, play first person shooters, meditate, play RPGs, do drugs, drink, etc. They just have to hope they get the chance to partake in that activity before the desperation gets too high.

Also... I'm curious why the traits need to be past, present, and future. How is that used in the game?

[Anders Larsen]

Hi

I have to ask about this. Have you taken this 'past, present, future' idea from my post here:

http://www.indie-rpgs.com/forum/index.php?topic=20974.0

Don't worry, I am not accusing you of stealing. Actually I think it is rather cool if other people want to use my ideas.

And if you have not taken it from me, I think it is rather cool too, that we have come to the same idea. And then you may get some inspiration from reading my version of that idea.

I have some more thoughts about this here: http://www.indie-rpgs.com/forum/index.php?topic=21435.0

- Anders

[Caesar_X]

Hey Anders,

Thanks for your note.  Actually I was cruising through the forums the other day and saw your game post and my first reaction was "Oops".  So no, I didn't take the concept from your post, but I think you have a really nice direction.  I really like reading about other games as they take form and it is an inspiration.  I have been experimenting with different elements in my game that can work with the common elements of film noir such as someone's past coming back to haunt them, or trying desperately to reach some future goal. 

So I'm not sure how the traits will end up in the game ultimately, but they always say that "great minds think alike"!

Chris B.
Caesar_X@yahoo.com

[Callan S.]

I like the sound of the desperation mechanic. What feeling are you going for the game? If it's not a really dark or bleak setting then you might want to consider allowing the characters to have other ways to blow off steam, like maybe they lift weights, play first person shooters, meditate, play RPGs, do drugs, drink, etc. They just have to hope they get the chance to partake in that activity before the desperation gets too high.

Here's a sick idea: They blow off desperation by - thinking themselves to be right. In whatever way "Screw this desperation, I'm right about X so I don't need to be desperate! Ah yeah!". Maybe they go off and drink or party or whatever, but its just a reward for them being right and an expression of that.

That curbs it always being a simple increase in desperation, cause players wont always think their characters been right in anything at all. But then again, if they want to get off the train, they have to consider their PC thinking they are damn well right about something.

[Paul T]

Here's a sick idea: They blow off desperation by - thinking themselves to be right. In whatever way "Screw this desperation, I'm right about X so I don't need to be desperate! Ah yeah!". Maybe they go off and drink or party or whatever, but its just a reward for them being right and an expression of that.

That curbs it always being a simple increase in desperation, cause players wont always think their characters been right in anything at all. But then again, if they want to get off the train, they have to consider their PC thinking they are damn well right about something.

This sounds like a fantastic idea! Has it been used in any other games?

Question: Would this work, given the Touch of Noir rules? I skimmed through the other actual play thread and the rules text on the web site, but I'm not sure fully understand how the Desperation points are accumulated. Is it any time you use a trait in a conflict, or only when you fail?

I could see this being a really powerful tool if it forces the player to choose between the character accepting something distasteful or extreme as *right* OR risking losing control of their character during a future scene.

However, it seems to me that for that to work, the game would have to work in such a way that at least most of the time you accumulated DPs it was in situations were the character was really acting out of desperation and doing questionable things or totally overreacting.

Do the rules, as written, encourage that? If you can call on traits to accomplish things that are non-controversial, this won't enter play too much. But then, maybe I've misunderstood how the rules of this game work.

Finally, I have to side with everyone who has said that it's not a good idea to have the odds of desperate aggression *drop* as you accrue DPs. My point of view is: you want those explosions to be significant, major events. Therefore, you don't want them happening all the time at other times. It depletes their "bang", makes them less special.

Enjoying the thread,


Paul T.