TROS Weapon Statistics (ATN, DTN, & Damage)

[Jake Norwood]

Quick rapier comment: if an opponent gets in close, past point-range, rapier hilts and the weapon's substantial heft made for very nasty punches. Same goes for the small bucklers that were used with them in some cases.

Exactly why you keep a buckler or a poniard/main gauche around. Often when they close the do so with your hilt held down (I would). TROS mechanics handle this beautifully...it's one of the the things I'm proud of.

I vote for keeping the ST+3, extending the range a bit, and dropping the +3 against metal armor. No other modifications seem appropriate to me. They really are horrible, fearsome weapons in an urban environment. People used to get killed in sportive fencing right into the middle of the twentieth century, before blades were lightened and the button-end was blunted.

True, but remember that in TROS one can die with a -1. I'm leaning toward the +2 myself (although, in truth, the difference in the long run isn't all that great).

Cool but possibly apocryphal detail: a "buckle" is a "buckler," and "swashing" it means to clap on it or rattle it with one's sword. Apparently duelists (read: gangs) in Renaissance Italy would do this while challenging one another ... hence the name "swashbuckler." (My question is why the name, which is clearly etymologically English, is supposed to come from an Italian phenomenon.)

I can answer that. In britain they used to wear the buckler hanging from the hilt or sheath-top of their sword, and with would "swish-swash" as they sauntered about. They purposely walked this way to garner attention. In the late 1500's (George Silver and William Shakespeare's time) the Italian rapier had grown immensely popular (much to the chagrin of the aforementioned G. Silver), thus the Italian-british connection.

En garde,
Jake

[Shadow]

Jake, I think I like your rapier-length solution better than the one I proposed. People could have medium or long rapiers, rather than the best of both worlds.  My version sounded like some funny telescoping blade was involved, on second thought.

I agree with Ron on the punching idea, makes sense to pop someone with hilts & baskets if they are inside your guard.

On the damage modifier for Rapiers, I still think a +1 is about as good as they should be unless other weapons have damage increased.  I think the reach (long weapon rating) proposed for the rapier will keep its thrusts at long range deadly enough.  

I agree that rapiers are horrible, fearsome weapons in an urban environment, but I still feel other swords are as well.  Would one be happier at the prospect of being stabbed by a cut & thrust sword than a rapier?  I think the ability to stab deeply is represented already in the low ATN of the rapier and the long reach proposed.  If on average that lower ATN results in 1 more success, that will result in the rapier strike advancing one more column on the damage table for a more penetrating strike anyway.  The rapier would still be a very fearsome weapon in TROS, with the combination of long reach, 5 ATN, and +1 damage, if compared to other weapons, especially if paired with target, buckler or dagger.  That's my best judgment, additional playtesting with the various ratings may be more enlightening as to how the statistics play out in actual TROS combat however (to me as well, I will playtest more myself).  

On the shortsword, I was thinking the low damage of the shortsword on the slash (+0 vs, say, +1 for the Arming sword) represented its momentum disadvantage; if given an ATN of 6, it would be as easy to hit someone with as an Arming sword (well as easy to hit with at short range as with an Arming sword at medium range..), but would still be harder to do damage with (+0 instead of +1), representing the superior momentum & impact of the longer blade.

Thinking on weapons vs. armor, maybe the Estoc should have ST+1 instead of +2, but with an extra +1 against armors?  Just through that one out, sudden thought I just had.

One final note, I recognize that my opinions are just my estimation of how to best translate the weapons into statistical/game terms, and I readily admit they can be off.  I am jazzed at how most of a weapon's advantages can be represented in this system, and how rationale plays directly into ratings ("this weapons has high impact.. increase damage; this weapon is quick and wieldly, good ATN and/or DTN; this one has reach, length actually counts in this game... etc).  No longer is a weapon's "damage" rating always the primary (or even only) factor in determining its utility.  Fun, fun fun is right!