Dead Man on Campus Engle Matrix Game released

[MatrixGamer]

If you like Call of Cthulhu you'll love this game.

Dead Man on Campus is the fourth folio EMG released this year by Hamster Press. This time the games centers on Lovecraftian Zombies on the campus of Miskatonic Univeristy in 1923. The game consists of a 16x21 color laminated map, separate rules sheet and character sheet, and wooden counters with character pictures on them.

As in all EMGs players take turns making up arguments about what happens next in the game. This keeps the game simple and highly replayable. I've been playing this scenario for eight years.

Physical Version costs $12.95 USD from Hamster Press http://www.io.com/~hamster

PDF version costs $6.00 USD from RPGNow in the "Other Games" tab. http://www.rpgnow.com/product_info.php?products_id=519&

We've played this game online at the MatrixGame2 yahoo group. Come by in join in the latest game. We're getting up a Hundred Year War Military campaign and a story game of intrigue in the secluded mansion of a wicked millionaire.

http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/MatrixGame2/

[Ron Edwards]

Hi Chris,

This is a press release, not a discussion topic. Can you present something to discuss about publishing the new product in the community sense of the Forge, rather than an advertisement?

Best, Ron

[MatrixGamer]

You are correct this is a press release...so...to give it a discussion point...

The release describes how the game is made. It is more of a boardgame format than a RPG book format. The wooden counters are a straight Eurogame tribute. I'm finding this format of game pretty easy to make and to give more of the convention game effect to the buyers than my books ever did. What other games might be done using this kind of format? I have a bunch of wargames I'm planning on putting out next.

Chris Engle
Hamster Press = Engle Matrix Games

[Ron Edwards]

I'm really, really interested in new game formats that use elements of board and card games. Right now my favorite game, physically speaking, is Oriente.

Is everything packed into a box? If so, how big is the box?

Does the map fold up, and if so, how big is it?

So yes, this is a good discussion topic, and I'd like to see what Ralph and Julie have to say about it, if they want.

Best, Ron

[MatrixGamer]

Is everything packed into a box? If so, how big is the box?

Does the map fold up, and if so, how big is it?

Right now I'm shooting for a low price point so the game doesn't have a box. Everything is folded up, sheets inserted and wood counters laid in and then shrunk wrapped. Once openned, the counters get stickers stuck and must be stored in a plaster baggy (at least that's what I do.) The folio itself is stored on a bookshelf.

I prefold the map into quarters. Once it is laminated I can refold on those existing folds easily. So it is technically a Octavio (I think that is what an eight page folio is called).

I figure that if any of the games sell well I could do a boxed version later on. Though I would probably try to sell the game to a regular publisher if I do that.

As people know who have read my posts over the last couple of years - I like printing a book binding - but for home printing game making purposes I'm liking the folios a lot more. Books are real labor intensive and the quality I can do at home is not equal to a POD book. Consumers of game books are very demanding. I'm finding I'm not willing to pay the price to keep up with that expectation so in future my book making will likely be used for special nitch books like Puppetry and other wierd items.

Back to folding the folios. They fold up easily with the prefold but this does not mean that they immediately lay flat. The shrink wrap holds them in. I expect given time between books that they would. fully compact. For now I need to do more observation to spot problems.

Chris Engle
Hamster Press = Engle Matrix Games

[guildofblades]

Hi Chris,

I'm assuming you have the means to print up to 11 x 17 sheets in nice color? And I know you have a cutter.

With some tape and a hot glue gun you could easily order blank boxes and apply "wraps" to your boxes. Depending on box size and a reasonably production run this can run as low as $.15 to $.25 a box. Our somewhat larger 9" x 11.25" x 1.5" boxes cost $.35 as blanks. If you are using a quality "zip" bag I know those run at least $.05 to $.07, so an upgrade to a box really is not a huge expense.

The trick is, I am assuming you are making your folio games by the hundred or so. And boxes at those prices have to be ordered at around 2,500 at a time. So, $625 to $800 or so for a run of boxes. You need to chose a standard box format that you can then use for a multitude of products. You get 5-10 products sharing a box format and those production runs can get chewed threw pretty quickly.

Ryan S. Johnson
Guild of Blades Publishing Group
http://www.guildofblades.com
http://www.1483online.com
http://www.thermopylae-online.com

[MatrixGamer]

Can you tell me more about putting the art onto the boxes. That is what concerns me. It has to look good. My view of boxed games comes from old Avalon Hill games. The recent Euro games have similarly quality boxes. How do your boxes compair? If I go this way I would need to get a new 11x17 printer. I'd go computer printer this time. My experience with color copiers is poor.

A good box should add maybe $5 to the price tag.

Chris Engle

[guildofblades]

They don't look as good as an old style bookshelf game box from Avalon Hill. I have found no effective POD way to do that.

The print quality of the wrap is as good or bas as the machine printing the wrap. Most machines don't print to the very edge so you either have to chop the white margin off or live with it. All of our boxes have blank white facing, so we just leave the white edge on. So we have wraps that go around the box as it is standing up, but the bottom flap and top flap have no printing. And there is at least a 1/8" white margin top and bottom.

Its not as nice as bookshelf style boxes, but a far sight more appealing than plastic bags.

Ryan S. Johnson
Guild of Blades Publishing Group
http://www.guildofblades.com
http://www.1483online.com
http://www.thermopylae-online.com

[MatrixGamer]

Can you give me a URL to a box maker so I can see what their standard sizes are? I could see printing a 8.5x11 sticker to the lid. They run about 10 cents a sheet at 1000 of them. Should probably have a side sticker so it can be shelf read. It is a possiblity.

I knew that I'd never have boxes like those old book shelf boxes. They were well made things of beauty.

Chris Engle
Hamster Press = Engle Matrix Games

[guildofblades]

Hi Chris,

Well, there are different kinds of boxes. The old bookshelf style boxes are two piece boxes. They have a top and a bottom. I am not sure about sources for those, but even blanks in that format that I researched in the past were costly.

The type of boxes we have used are single piece "tuck" boxes. Essentially, imagine a very large version of the box you put a deck of cards into, but on thicker stock. In the future we're going to start converting our best selling and higher end titles to have fully printed boxes because we'll gang print the whole box on the same color chipboard sheets and our die cut units and chipboard book covers. But all of our smaller titles and slower sellers will be staying with blank white boxes and wraps.

We experimented with putting labels on them. We buy those full sticker sheet in bulk and get the at $.08 a piece, but the problem is, its time intensive to put them on and there is a high error rate. Its very difficult to both put the label on straight and without any wrinkles in them.

The wraps are easy. Print up a hundred of them, stick the pile under the cutter and cut away the white margins on the two sides, leaving the 1/8 white margin on top and bottom. They are designed to wrap all the way around the box, plus they have a leading tab edge of about 1/2 inch. This tab edge we simply tape into the box, then wrap the wrap around the box creasing the wrap around the edges of the box. We do that to the whole production run of 100 or so, then use a hot glue gun to glue down the far edge of the wrap on top of the the original tab edge and the side of the box. If the wraps are put on tight, they stay on very well. If you put them on too lose there is a chance a finger or thumb handling the product could catch an edge of the wrap and accidentally tear it. That chance reduces greatly if you use a thicker stock for the wrap. Its not ideal because on only cover the front, back and two sides, but leaves the two narrow ends blank (if stood up, those would be the top and bottom). They still display well when shelves spine (side out), but if you lay them down you have to lay them down side facing our rather than top or bottom out. I guess if you wanted to you could apply a wrap, then put stickers on the top and the bottom. Those stickers would at least be small enough to control when putting on so should not be a problem. We've just never thought the benefit of doing so would outweigh the time expense of applying them.

Ryan S. Johnson
Guild of Blades Publishing Group
http://www.guildofblades.com
http://www.1483online.com
http://www.thermopy-online.com

[MatrixGamer]

Thanks I will meditate on this.

Chris Engle