New Math, er, Magic

[Jake Norwood]

Many of you have the revised edition of TROS sorcery. I'd love to hear what you all think, on a few levels:

Clarity
Improvements
Stuff you're glad to see
Stuff you miss
Impressions and Opinions

Waiting for your replies.

Jake

[Furious D]

Clarity

Many of the example spells are much improved in description.  Things like Rapiers of Bone listing damage instead of just saying it's very painful (and it is, ouch).  Much less head scratching while looking through the list, and it also gives would be spell writters a much better idea on making up effects for their own spells.  It was also a good move to reprint the Mana series of spells under the summoning spell section (it was possible to miss it where it was before).

I Like how the CTN modifier section has been cleaned up, and much expounded upon.  We had the table before, but the descriptions on how to apply the modifiers are very nice.

The descriptions of the Vagaries effects seems to be cleared up a bit, as well (and made a bit more consistent).

Improvements

Just the way it's generally cleaned up. In addition to all the other things I've mentioned.  Also how the spell descriptions now have effect more inline with the spell creation rules (based on CTN, etc).  This is particularly true of spells like Armor of Air.

Stuff you're glad to see

Me likey much the new additions to Dormant Spells.  Magic items anyone?

The new Animation subcategory of Movement is wonderful.  Now I can more easily make my terrible army of Golems, Gargoyles, and Undead >:)

Stuff you miss

Form Fit Armor :(
Was I the only one who liked this spell?  It was actually a central part of the concept of my first mage.  He worked in the Quartermaster's department of Gelure, fitting armor for officers (formalized to a CTN of 4, it was a really simple thing to cast, and it's effects were permanent.

Holding spells
Though I can think of a few good reasons that this was taken out, it was nice to have a spell primed and ready to blast, just in case.  Hopefully the new rules for dormant spells will make up for that.

The redefinition of Movement 2 is going to hurt some of my spells.  Now my Gale Force Wind spell only blows at 100 mph instead of being mach-force :(  Oh well.

I don't miss Avatar of the Blade, though.  That was just sick (and I was thinking of disallowing it, anyway)

Impressions and Opinions

Very nice, especially the work on the spell descriptions.  Less ambiguity is a good thing (where specific spells are concerned).

Querry:
With the new way that lightning works, is that just one level 2+(successes) wound to just one location, or is the damage divided up between various locations.  The way I was handling it in the past involved rolling on the falling damage allocation chart and stacking wounds (roll the same location twice, it becomes a level 2 wound, etc).

[Jaif]

I liked form-fit armor too.

I havent' read it yet.  I intend to do so soon.

-Jeff

[Ace]

Many of you have the revised edition of TROS sorcery. I'd love to hear what you all think, on a few levels:

Jake

Clarity

Very clear and concise writing helps the chapter a lot. It is much easier to use and understand


Improvements
The new layout of the thing is really good. The rules on some spells work better too Rapiers of Bone (as Furious D mentioned) and the slightly boosted Seal wound are great

Stuff you're glad to see:

Ron's Essay was wonderful, Basically it was "Now I get it!"
great stuff.
I also liked the improvment and clarification of armor of air.
Group Sorcery. Those rules were neat, I can hear them in my campaign chanting Fatgn IA IA Fatgn now

Stuff you miss:

Form Fit Armor, I would have liked a clairified version of this spell. The idea of a spell thats "Low Cost custom armor" is very appealing

Avatar of the Blade, that was pretty cool  spell and I like the idea of a "light saber" effect made into a magic item. Here poor but skilled warrior hit them with this (modified Avatar of the balde with several day duration, ouch)
Holding spells, just as D said, I hope they come back in Sorcery and the fey.

Impressions and Opinions:

Good work all in all. The only thing I didn't get was the aging of talismans in a dormant spell. Since there is no way (or reason) to recharge them why worry about it?
Also I noticed you nerfed Gift of The Ancients
Why?

[Valamir]

Call me stupid...but where is this sorcery file.  I've been up and down the downloads page six times and can't seem to find it...

[Furious D]

Avatar of the Blade, that was pretty cool  spell and I like the idea of a "light saber" effect made into a magic item. Here poor but skilled warrior hit them with this (modified Avatar of the balde with several day duration, ouch)

It was a nice spell.  Too nice. (in fact, quite a bit overpowered).  It also defied some of the existing rules in that it's damage wasn't consistent with its CTN (and toughness is supposed to reduce it).  While it could be argued that toughness can't resist a disintegration effect, Willpower is supposed to.  So, yeah, it was overpowered and inconsistent.  I can see why it would be cut.

A much reduced effectiveness version would have been alright, though.  It's rules were a good basis for a lightsaber in a Star Wars conversion, though.  Well, except we were going to make it's base damage 0+net attacker successes.

Uhm, what would you do with a disintegrating sword for a several days.  That's a very difficult and dangerous thing to carry around (it's not like any normal sheat could contain it).

Good work all in all. The only thing I didn't get was the aging of talismans in a dormant spell. Since there is no way (or reason) to recharge them why worry about it?

The rules seem to imply you could replace the spell on the item if you so desired.  I think the aging rules were there to determine how many times you could do that before it becomes a worthless piece of junk.

And I forgot to mention this before, but hooray for completing the metric to Imperial conversions!

[Furious D]

Call me stupid...but where is this sorcery file.  I've been up and down the downloads page six times and can't seem to find it...

I wouldn't call you stupid, but read the comment by Jake in the revisions thread (it's stuck at the top so it's easy to find).  He'll tell you the link in email if you prove you already have a copy of the book (read that thread, you'll find out)

[Valamir]

heh, good thing I asked, because having missed that the first time, I never would have found it again.  Thanks

[Jaif]

Good stuff thus far.  I like the organization of the chapter, and I like the overall clarity.  Things seem more straight-forward now.

The dormant spells are very nice, and I don't mind losing "holding" in favor of this.

I have a question about the duration of constant spells.  As I read it the rules have changed a bit: if you add a summon magic effect equal to the highest effect in the spell, then the spell is now constant and will continue success number of duration (e.g. if duration is hours, it's hours).  Unlike maintained spells, this is regardles of the sorcerer's condition, and no dice are held.

Do I have this right?  If so, then why do Dominate & Fear of Fire (there may be others, I haven't checked each one) only have a summon magic effect of 2?

Btw, if I am reading correctly, I like those changes/clarifications as well.  It's easy for me now to see when I'd use a maintained spell, and when I'd use a constant spell.

-Jeff

[Lance D. Allen]

That's a good point, actually. Summon Magic 3 would be required to sustain Fear of Fire (I didn't look at Dominate) as it requires a Control 3, and is therefore a Master level spell. However, I think it's just an oversight. It would still only add the +1 to L, whether it be at Summon level 2 or 3. The CTN wouldn't change.

[Lance D. Allen]

Hi, finally got down to reading the revised Sorcery stuff.. Lotsa changes.

Clarity

Much, much clearer. It was considerably easier to read through, and locating things seems to be much easier.

Improvements

The redefined aspects of the Vagaries are better, by far. Animation, in particular, I think is a needed improvement.


Glamour, Tangibility 2: Does this mean that it will create something "solid" that people cannot move through, yet they cannot feel? If so, I would assume this is because the magic is somehow inhibiting their mind from forcing their body through it, but they could fall or be knocked through it. By my reading, this is the call I would make, but I'd like to know the intent.

Also, is it possible to make an illusion of JUST sound without having Tangibility 3? I wouldn't think that sound production should be that difficult...

Stuff you're glad to see

Just the clarifications, really. I think it's a lot easier to understand, and it leaves me with quite a bit more ideas and less questions.

Stuff you miss

I'll have to agree with everyone in that Holding should have stayed in there, esp. considering that it is mentioned in the example of Ghandul casting Fold as 3 separate Spells of One.

Impressions and Opinions

Overall, this is much nicer, and makes a lot more sense to me. I do have some fairly serious issues with a few things which were either changed, or I did not notice in my initial read-through of the book. As I don't have it with me (I loaned it out to another player... We're playing next week.) I can't check to see. However, as this thread appears to be specifically for general impressions, likes, dislikes, etc. I'll keep it focused, and go into my tangent in another thread.

[Ben]

I LIKED HOLDING!!!