Newsies

[lighthouse]

OK I have been thinking about a couple of things...

First, I think I have found a way towards 'sainthood' which is both consistent with Catholic teachings but can be adopted even in a secular game. Because while I still want my game , I want that people can play it in good conscience, so you can play it even if you are an atheist, agnostic, or whatever.

St John Bosco, used to say to the kids and boys he helped (many of them apprentices of various trades) that to be a saint you needed to do nothing extraordinary just to:
a) do your duty to the best of your ability
b) help everybody as much as you can.
c) be happy

of course, there are details (For Catholics a duty is to go to Mass , etc... yet I think it could be applied to anybody... what do you think?

Second, relations: Still very in the making, but it is a firm belief of mine that you don't become a saint on your own. (If you are a Christian that's obvious as you need God's Grace to begin with)... so I thinking I should work on that line...

Third, the shadow. There are issues we all have to deal with, and that's the shadow, it is something that both helps and hinders, like having a strong personality... it can come handy or lead to violence... So I thinking that each PC should have a shadow and then dealing with that shadow can drive a great deal of the adventures...

Fourth: (A more concrete idea).

I think weapons of any sort should be scary in the game, so at any time (less say a robbers gang) get something larger that a penknife the newsies will have to deal with fear.

[Ken]

I think weapons of any sort should be scary in the game, so at any time (less say a robbers gang) get something larger that a penknife the newsies will have to deal with fear.

Now this is very cool; in rpgs there is certainly a tendency to become desensitized to violence and the trappings of violent action. Having a game system where weapons are so rare that [when they show up] they change the way characters are able to act is an awesome idea. Do you have thoughts how this would work mechanically in your game?

Good stuff!

Ken

[Ken]

Hi-

I'm back for more:

I really like your game concept and not your decision to not make rules for performing miracles. I'm guessing that miracles will be more of a plot device and less of rules mechanic for players to invoke.

Also, do you intend to rank or score the good things characters do as they ascend to sainthood? Will they get more (good will?) points for making harder decisions that benefit others to their own detriment? Will you require a character to do so much good stuff for a miracle to happen, or do you see the manifestation of a miracle as the beginning of a long hard road for the character to walk (test of faith)? Does doing bad stuff invite bad things to happen to them? Does a character attaining sainthood end the game for that character?

I'm looking forward to hearing more; this is good stuff.

Take care,

Ken

[lighthouse]

Hi-

I'm back for more:

I really like your game concept and not your decision to not make rules for performing miracles. I'm guessing that miracles will be more of a plot device and less of rules mechanic for players to invoke.

Also, do you intend to rank or score the good things characters do as they ascend to sainthood? Will they get more (good will?) points for making harder decisions that benefit others to their own detriment? Will you require a character to do so much good stuff for a miracle to happen, or do you see the manifestation of a miracle as the beginning of a long hard road for the character to walk (test of faith)? Does doing bad stuff invite bad things to happen to them? Does a character attaining sainthood end the game for that character?

I'm looking forward to hearing more; this is good stuff.

Take care,

Ken

I think sainthood should be its own reward. (At least in the Catholic view) Saints do not have it easier for being saints, more like the opposite. I know I am working against a million of roleplaying traditions (This is a formal rebellion!) but while sainthood is the ultimate goal of the game, is not going to "level up" your PC in anyway.

As for recording sainthood... mechanics are a big problem... It is impossible to measure sainthood and yet we have to? haven't we? Even if we are to reduce it to a stage in morality and leave God out of the question (a secular 'saint') still how can you say "David is 100 points more ethical than Peter"? Yet something must be done...

For now, I'm considering that "doing good stuff when it would not be convenient to be so" should give you a card, but that card is not revealed till the end of the game session... so you can't actually count on it...

Theologically under Catholicism (which is the only faith I know well) sainthood is, very roughly, a relationship between God and us. The same can be said, more or less, for Non-Catholic Arminians, I guess, but I'm not so sure about reformed Churches...

[lighthouse]

Thanks for the help!

Now I understand why many good games have came out for the forge

[Ken]

As for recording sainthood... mechanics are a big problem... It is impossible to measure sainthood and yet we have to? haven't we? Even if we are to reduce it to a stage in morality and leave God out of the question (a secular 'saint') still how can you say "David is 100 points more ethical than Peter"? Yet something must be done...

Well, maybe not. If you design a game about newsies who, despite the pressures of being orphaned in a depressing & dangerous ghetto, do good deeds for the promise of mystic powers and one day becoming a saint, then you've just created a game with one real driver...power. In a real world rpg, when you can do amazing stuff, real world dangers don't really impress you. Now, if these same newsies do good things because not doing them would weight heavy on their soul, and maybe now & then they are receive visions or are pointed in the right decision, then you've made a potentially rich role-playing experience. There is nothing wrong with conventional power-level gaming, but I agree that it may not fit here. Realistically, how do you know you're a saint, even when your a saint?

I think your idea has heart and spirit and is pointed the right way. If you don't like quantifying points for the characters to track, maybe you should develope a way for GMs to track when its time for a trial or epiphany to test the character's resolve. Just an idea.

Keep it up; looking forward to reading more soon.

Take care,

Ken

[lighthouse]

I have made progress in the game, having written around 12 pages. Everything is pretty sloppy right now but I can announce a couple of things:

a) There would be no skills in this game; instead we play with the basic Orp values and, as the game proceeds, the player can choose what they are good or bad at. If you are "good at" something you get a +1 bonus or a malus if you are "bad at" something else. For every two things you are "good at" you must choose one in which you are "bad at". Plus you can only improve something you are good once per act.

b) The game is divided into acts, each being roughly equal to one game session.

c) The player group should decide how "bleak" their world is by choosing things like their starting equipment, the attitude of police officers, etc...

d) The nation is to be a fantasy country somewhere in North America, ruled by a benign and progressive (except if the players choose otherwise see c) above) monarchy.

e) As the game progresses I am giving it an increansingly Catholic tone; I feel I can't do otherwise, because it is the only theology and spirituality in which I know something about... So I plan to include a "secular version" as an appendix. I think I can do that alright, as I have taught ethics at high school (even though some elements would be missing in a "secular saint" of course.

However what about other denominations? Can anybody help me out here?

If you want to check the unfinished and very sloppy draft send me a message

[lighthouse]

It almost hurts me to ask this but...

may I assume that there is no interest in the game after three days of no replies? I mean writing a game is tough work and if there is few interest in it, I'd rather do something else, maybe a novel for nanowrimo or something

[Ken]

Hi-

Don't let waning responses upset your desire to write this game. These threads will only go so far with you while working on your project. You've gotten a good amount of feedback, but people are problem running out of useful things to add. In my case, I no longer feel that I have anything else to contribute with this topic right now. As you run into more specific challenges, initiate new threads to deal with them. Eventually, you'll get to a point where you'll want to playtest and maybe even publish.

Keep it up, and take care,

Ken

[lighthouse]

I'm going to write this as a novel, not a rpg, and this is why

From an Article About Luciano Pavarotti


The great Italian opera tenor, Luciano Pavarotti, who died one week ago, on September 6th, said that when he was a boy, his father, a baker, introduced him to the wonders of song, and urged him to work hard to develop his voice. Pavarotti took his father's advice, but he also enrolled in a teacher's college. Upon graduation he asked his father, "Shall I be a teacher or a singer?"

"Luciano," his father replied, "if you try to sit on two chairs, you will fall between them. For life, you must choose one chair."

Pavarotti said, "I chose one. It took seven years of study and frustration before I made my first professional appearance. It took another seven to reach the Metropolitan Opera. And now I think whether it's laying bricks, writing a book--whatever we choose--we should give ourselves to it."

Source: http://rorysrambles.blogspot.com

So this is a goodbye