Whither the Art?

[Ron Edwards]

Hi folks,

I'll offer the Adept Press art policy for comparison. I only use flat fees for artists. I pay up front, when I don't forget, which I've done once or twice, and I also only pay for leasing the art, meaning that it belongs to the artist, not me. Example: Raven currently offers the Sorcerer cover art as a t-shirt, and that's his sale, not mine (I bought two, and so should everyone else).

Best,
Ron

[Eugene Zee]

Hi all,

I would definitely concur that royalties on artwork are the exception, not the norm.  There are a LOT of really creative ways to get artwork for your publication and many different types of contracts.  Don't get caught up in what has to be because the industry does this.  A good rule of thumb is, if something is legal and both parties agree, go for it.  You can get a lot of great art for free from really good artists.

Possible resources and solutions

Art students (many who are very talented and looking to make a name for themselves)

A contract that negotiates a reduced bulk amount for multiple artwork payable 30 days after release (so you have the money to pay them)

An non-paid or low pay arrangement that allows the artist to keep the "rights" to the artwork and produce side items (t-shirts, hats, etc.) with the artwork that they can sell at conventions (in your booth), websites (on your game's website), stores (that also sell your book).

Don't be afraid to be creative and suggest things to artist that you are working with.  Many of them understand the pressures that a new business is under, are sympathetic and will work with you.

I think this has been established in previous posts but you do need art.

[Bankuei]

Art students (many who are very talented and looking to make a name for themselves)

I cannot emphasize how much talent goes unnoticed, wasted, and unused that can be absolutely free.  Having spent several years in graphic design, there are tons of high school and college students who are going to draw regardless of whether someone is paying them or not.  

If you're up front and tell them that you can't pay them, but they keep the rights and a get a free copy of your game in print, and it will do well for their portfolio, that's more than they're going to get in terms of real work interning("Do some photoshop cleanup, for the next 8 hours...").  

Again, I will recommend this: choose someone who is already doing art you like, don't listen to "I can draw anything".  The best choices are folks who already have pieces you'd like to use.

Chris

[hive]

I cannot emphasize how much talent goes unnoticed, wasted, and unused that can be absolutely free.

This is true.

However this maybe great for indie publishers looking to skin their book but this is rather a destructive method for freelance artists.

Every year we see a new crop of freelance artists ready and willing to undercut their peers just to see their name in print. Support the indie creator but not the freelancers. Buy cheap art. Pay later after you get yours.

Nah. Don't milk the freelance pool just to get some half-pages done for your book. Be professional and run with the big boys. Build a relationship with your illustrators. Establish if you are buying world rights/full rights/first rights for the artwork. Pay them promptly. IF you set up an arrangement for payment after print recouping make sure you follow up.

Don't forget that alot of more established illustrators will cut their prices with bulk work (like a 10 pic deal), repeated work (assigned to several books), and interest work (draw Buffy? I love that f*cking show!).

Now i don't want anyone to think that i'm against the neophyte. I have sympathy for them because they are going through a trial by fire over their first year. They have to come to terms with the fact that the golden apple of promise that companies hold out may not be all that edible.

[Bankuei]

Build a relationship with your illustrators. Establish if you are buying world rights/full rights/first rights for the artwork. Pay them promptly. IF you set up an arrangement for payment after print recouping make sure you follow up.

By all means.  I'm not recommending a use and waste pool of students, but if you state up front what you can offer and what the terms are in a clear and straightforward manner, you will get a lot more from it.  That is, many artists are willing to work for free for exposure and to increase their portfolio.  A great piece of finished art is good, a piece that someone else was willing to use in their product is better.

I'm only speaking as having spent a fair amount of my short life as an art student :)

Chris

[hive]

I'm only speaking as having spent a fair amount of my short life as an art student

I don't want to come across as pessimistic but i do want to be realistic...

A concerning problem for freelancers is having to get burned in order to succeed. There is some fostering for the community but as a whole it lacks any sort of mentor-oriented venues. Honestly, i don't want to see another illustrator getting burned because he didn't know how to conduct in the right channels. There has to be a better way.

Look, one of the biggest reasons why i was attracted to the Forge was that it was more than just a 'i like this' & 'this company blows' discussion board. This is more of a community where there are no stupid questions to be asked...you just ask them and you get an articulated response from others. No bullshit.

I just wished that the was a 'Forge' for illustrators. Maybe then the freelance market won't be so cut-throat.

-
h
www.internalist.com

[Jason L Blair]

I just wished that the was a 'Forge' for illustrators. Maybe then the freelance market won't be so cut-throat.


Isn't that what your one site was supposed to be, hive? (I can't remember the URL... damn.) Whatever became of that?

[Jared A. Sorensen]

I just wished that the was a 'Forge' for illustrators. Maybe then the freelance market won't be so cut-throat.


Isn't that what your one site was supposed to be, hive? (I can't remember the URL... damn.) Whatever became of that?

Studio Ronin
http://www.studioronin.com/home.htm

[Jason L Blair]

No, it wasn't the studio site, it was a different one.

[hive]

Isn't that what your one site was supposed to be, hive? (I can't remember the URL... damn.) Whatever became of that?

It was the ronin project (now defunct). Without much fanfare we had a solid group coming but alot of people just saw it as a plug-site and asked when we were going to have server space like elfwood. Most discussions that took place were via email and not the actual discussion forum.

While i love doing portfolio reviews and swapping contact lists, the width and breath of the project was falling on Josh & my own shoulders. It was too demanding on our own times when we had work deadlines. There have been talks of revival since i got back into freelancing, but since my views on freelancing have changed...who knows?

[Jared A. Sorensen]

There have been talks of revival since i got back into freelancing, but since my views on freelancing have changed...who knows?

Maybe it's time for this thread to split. I'd be interested in hearing from hive and other artistes in regards to freelancing.

- J

[Misguided Games]

A pretty strong community has been building at rpg.net in the freelancers forum.  It is currently weighted more toward artists than writers but that has changed somewhat.  That particular forum has developed its own unique dynamic that is quite different from the rest of the site.  There are 5 different artists that post at least occasionally in that forum who have worked with us previously or are doing so currently.  Contact with three of those was established through that forum.