[DitV] Spring River: Secret rolls for gamey bliss?

[Daniel Davis]

I ran Dogs for the first time last night. I've been obsessed with the game for a while but hadn't gotten the chance to actually play a town. I was GMing; and Tim, Walker, and Posey were the players.

I hadn't had a lot of time to prepare; the previous night I had just printed out a town I found online that looked interesting, Spring River

[David Artman]

I think that rolling behind a screen could work, if you're playing with a group that doesn't care about the tactical aspect of using dice. Conversely, if your group likes to plan their dice use based on what you've rolled, you'll disappoint them. In the end, it's a technique that's highly depedent on the tastes of the group.

[Callan S.]

I'm not clear on the 'behind the screen' thing - if you roll as per the rules behind the screen, its no different than rolling in the open. I can only think rolling behind the screen is a round about way of saying 'the GM fudges when he wants to'?

[Daniel Davis]

I'm not clear on the 'behind the screen' thing - if you roll as per the rules behind the screen, its no different than rolling in the open. I can only think rolling behind the screen is a round about way of saying 'the GM fudges when he wants to'?

The point is not to fudge the rolls; that's not even in the question. The point is to eliminate player knowledge of what the GM has rolled. As I haven't had the chance to actually try this out and haven't heard from anyone who has (and since I haven't thought about it in serious detail), I can only speculate about the effects.

But I think that one plausible effect would be a tendency on the part of the players to Give more often; and, when they Give, to do so in more "realistic" situations from an Actor stance. Maybe I'm wrong here; I'd love to hear input.

[lumpley]

I know that there are a couple of groups who used to play with hidden dice (all around, not just the GM's), but I haven't heard from them in a while. I don't think anybody's going to be able to give you solid answers - if you want to know, you'll have to try it and see, I think. Be sure to come back and tell us how it went.

From my perspective as the designer: being able to see your opponent's dice lets you see that you're going to lose, way in advance of your actually losing. This means that a) you give early, so conflicts you can't win don't go on forever in play; or else b) you escalate early, so conflicts rush upward instead of dawdling.

-Vincent

[David Artman]

From my perspective as the designer: being able to see your opponent's dice lets you see that you're going to lose, way in advance of your actually losing. This means that a) you give early, so conflicts you can't win don't go on forever in play; or else b) you escalate early, so conflicts rush upward instead of dawdling.

Yep, that's what I'd imagine happening, too. Also, here's a good time to link to that "strategy" article/post that talks about how to use dice (which, obviously, requires player knowledge of the dice). My Forge Search Fu is totally lame--I don't think I've ever successfully found a thread for which I have searched! --but maybe someone has a link saved (Vincent?)?
David

[Daniel Davis]

Also, here's a good time to link to that "strategy" article/post that talks about how to use dice (which, obviously, requires player knowledge of the dice). My Forge Search Fu is totally lame--I don't think I've ever successfully found a thread for which I have searched! --but maybe someone has a link saved (Vincent?)?

I believe I've read that article before and found it helpful. Anyway, if I do get a chance to play again, I'll be sure to make an AP report. Thanks again for the input.

[lumpley]

Here it is: John Kim's strategy notes for Dogs in the Vineyard.

Also very much worth reading: Ben Lehman's strategic breakdown of the character creation backgrounds.

-Vincent

[Moreno R.]

I remembered having answered before about keeping the rolls hideen, and there is the thread:
Missing Suspense in the Dog's Bidding System

The relevant part from my answer I think is this: "If the player don't know the strength of his opponent, his character's choices become less moral and more statistical, more "I feel lucky" and less "I have to do this" "