Lost/Survivors style game

[JB Mannon]

I have had the idea for a game like this kicking around in my head for a while but it seems to be going nowhere.  So I thought I would bring it before the mighty hive mind.  My idea so far is to have a zero sum conflict resolution.  You must give to recieve.  The only problem that I have with this idea is that nothing is ever truely acheived and therefor the story never moves forward.  I don't even have a system in mind for conflict resolution yet but I have been thinking along the lines of something like Best Friends or Hero's Banner.  Any way let me know what you think and thank you for your controbutions.

[chronoplasm]

Maybe give people the option of backstabbing and playing everybody for chumps?

[JB Mannon]

I have a feeling that players will feel like they are being backstabbed by other players but I don't want a "screw your friends" game.  I envision a game where everyone has differing goals and that naturally leads to conflict.

[contracycle]

The only problem that I have with this idea is that nothing is ever truely acheived and therefor the story never moves forward.

Which would be totally thematically appropriate, wouldn't it?  It would be an accurate homage to the source material.

[JB Mannon]

Not realy becouse the Losties are always moving forward in their plans either to escape the island or to live there peacefuly.  The Survivors are similar they are constantly building relationships and weeding out trouble.  Moving toward a goal is the only thing that would keep people in that situation alive.

[contracycle]

It is illusory motion, they are running in a treadmill or hamster-wheel.  The situation is constantly reset by quite deliberate authorial artifice. Nothing they do has any real significance.  It is an authorship which has utterly surrendered it's artistic integrity to the demands of marketing.

[JB Mannon]

Thanks for your imput so far but I am realy looking for help from people who are fans of these two series.

[chronoplasm]

Parody is a pretty powerful creative tool though. When going through a creative process such as this, it is good to try and tackle the problem from as many perspectives as you can. That is the point of asking for feedback.
If you were to approach this idea from a satirical point of view, making fun of the 'stranded on an island' genre, you might find a buried treasure of new ideas.

[JB Mannon]

That is a fair point and I agree that tackling a problem from multiple view points does help.  Unfortuinately the angle you sugested does not help me with my problem of how to move story forward.  That is realy the problem that I am facing at the moment and I would be happy to work through any ideas you may have on how to solve that problem.

I do think that a Giligan's Island style setting might also be an interesting angle.  I mean realy, bamboo telephones aren't realy all that different than all the stuff that the survivors are given for winning challanges or all the crazy things on Lost island.

[chronoplasm]

I suppose the people should try to get off the island somehow? Maybe they have to cooperate to build a boat? However, I think it will likely be very boring unless players have the ability to try and tip the scales in their favor.
It's basic prisoner's dilemma. Everybody can choose to play 'war' or 'peace'. Three things can happen:
1) Everybody choses war. Everybody loses a little. At some point people will figure out that they aren't getting anywhere and that they have to work together to avoid dying.
2) Everybody choses peace. Everybody gains a little. Everything moves forward a little bit.
3) Some people chose war, some people chose peace. The people who chose war play the peaceful people for chumps. Peaceful people lose a bit, warlike people win bigtime.

War doesn't have to be literal fighting though. Perhaps it's something as simple as somebody sneaking into the food supply when everybody else is asleep.

[JB Mannon]

What people have their characters doing is a large part of what makes this genre interesting.  They could be trying to get off the island, they could be trying to settle in and survive as long as possible, or they could just be out to hoard as much personal power and influence over the rest of the castaways without any plans as to how to use that power.  I am imagining the island to be populated with anywhere between twenty to fifty other survivors so a lot of the game play will revolve around gaining the trust and cooperation of these other survivors. 

[Callan S.]

Hi JB,

Will the game have an ending built into it? Side note: It seems each time I've asked this question in the past the person replies "Ending? A game having an ending? I don't understand, can you explain?". And I pull my hair out a little. I think there has to be something quite wrong if I have to explain an activity having an ending. If you've decided there's no end, that's fine. But I'm shocked that people in the past didn't understand the idea in general. They hadn't decided against it -- they just didn't seem able to compute it.

[JB Mannon]

I am planing on including specific end-game mechanics for each of the possible settings.  (Obviously a Survivor style game will end a lot differently than a Gilligans Island game.)  I am thinking that a strong end-game mechanic is critical to the success of this particular genre.  In a Survivor style game the end is clearly defined, after a certain number scenes their is a round of voting and then someone is voted off, when the last person is voted off the remaining player wins.  For characters on Lost Island the end-game is less specicific but none the less there.  Once every person has either successfuly integrated into island life, been rescued, or has come to grips with their past and accepted that.  A Gilligan's Island game would be harder to define an end to. 

So stop pulling out your hair.  The Grey Havens exist and is the end for all great heros.

[Scro]

I think what you might want isn't zero sum conflict resolution-- very little in the real world is really zero sum, plus, like you said, no one makes any net progress. In the real, world trades creates gains for both sides-- I give you something you want in exchange for something I want. Everyone gets something they want more for something they want less.

Like one of the other comments said, the prisoner's dilemma is a good place to start. Behind the scenes, that sort of thing powers a lot of games, of all genres (RPGs, CCGs, traditional boardgames, etc). Another thing I might suggest looking into is fair division. The idea is that given a set of finite resources, how do you divide them so that people are the happiest.

All of that said, I don't think necessarily you want to make any of this explicit. Set up a world that IS a prisoner's dilemma, and let players learn to play it that way-- without ever explicitly stating "this a prisoner's delimma."

[Callan S.]

Horay for endings!

Now - wow, those are really different end game mechanics. I'd think that qualifies two you described as two different games.

I'm more interested in the 'lost' one, so how do you determine intergration into island life, or accepting the past? To me, with my preferences, it'd sound cool if there's a rating for intergration in island life, acceptance of the past and escape. At certain points in the game all players have to openly put a point in one of them of their choice, showing which way their character is growing. I think escape might even represent denial of any problem, in a subtley delicious irony.

Anyway, in this case your conflict resolution being zero sum doesn't matter so much, because it's how the character grows in relation to environment, that matters. However I admit this perhaps lacks a bit of uncertainty - the player just chooses. The only uncertainty will come in relation to setting - like perhaps if someones setting themselves to escape and after they accomplish all that - put a point in intergration! WTF!? Cool! Perhaps the character just needed a choice before he could really accept his place here, or suchlike.

There's some ideas - but really since you have end game in mind, I think thinking about your end game will help you.