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[Dreamation 2008] WGP... The Monster Squad
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Topic: [Dreamation 2008] WGP... The Monster Squad (Read 1752 times)
Michael S. Miller
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Posts: 846
[Dreamation 2008] WGP... The Monster Squad
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January 31, 2008, 03:57:27 AM »
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Judd
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Please call me Judd.
Re: [Dreamation 2008] WGP... The Monster Squad
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Reply #1 on:
January 31, 2008, 05:54:50 AM »
Quote from: Michael S. Miller on January 31, 2008, 03:57:27 AM
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Judd
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Posts: 1641
Please call me Judd.
Re: [Dreamation 2008] WGP... The Monster Squad
«
Reply #2 on:
January 31, 2008, 09:37:30 AM »
I really should go over what went well.
The enrichment scenes were delightful. I loved the Monster Squad. I was rooting for Fogg to get over her ex-boyfriend and for Debris to assert herself as leader. I wanted to know if The Salamander destroyed the world or saved it and I wanted to know if Mudslide could make it work with Debris and go straight.
And dammit, I loved my Reed Richards in a German Shepherd bodied super-scientist. The enrichment scenes were gold.
And I think that is what made the ass-kicking all the more rough for us.
I think there would be ways to make a game where the characters were going to get kicked around and it would be alright but you got us all invested and shit. I was really rooting for the Monster Squad and that made the extended kicking we took rougher.
I think you had the right idea in your post. If you had kicked our asses, fast and furious and moved on to the next conflict, with Debris in chains, Prime gone over to his maker's bidding, etc. etc. and we got to play for a while after that scene that had the weight of Parker tossing his Spider-Man uniform in the trash, that would've been cool and less frustrating.
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Remi Treuer
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Posts: 67
Re: [Dreamation 2008] WGP... The Monster Squad
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Reply #3 on:
January 31, 2008, 10:54:59 AM »
Just a quick reply to confirm that Judd's feelings are mine, pretty much to-the-letter.
I could have done without the knock-down drag-out fight completely, even if we had won. The fight was out of character with the tone of the rest of the game we had played. The Utopian was evil not because he was punching us in the face, but because he was using all his considerable media power to make us look bad (and hurt Fogg). Dr. Grotesque was a father-figure to two members of the team (Mudslide and Prime). Our beef with him wasn't over his criminal ways, but being a bad progenitor.
I could have played enrichment scenes with these characters all day, and it makes me a little sad that the only way to move forward was to have a big punch-up. It seems like there's a way to layer the emotional issues over physical violence, but, man, once the laser beams came out, all that stuff just got moved to the side.
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ptevis
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Posts: 63
Re: [Dreamation 2008] WGP... The Monster Squad
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Reply #4 on:
January 31, 2008, 11:24:36 AM »
I wanted to jump to the conflict scene after the first round of enrichment, both because it would have given us more to react to in a second round of enrichment, and because then we could have gone after the Utopian in a second conflict. I think we just set our stakes on the conflict too high, and given how late in the session it came, there was no real way to avoid ending on a down note.
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Ron Edwards
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Re: [Dreamation 2008] WGP... The Monster Squad
«
Reply #5 on:
February 09, 2008, 09:34:33 AM »
Hello,
I've been thinking about this thread a lot, because I have been prepping some With Great Power for purposes of Go Play Peoria and/or Forge Midwest. What I'm deciding is that, like some other games well-known to both us, Mike, WGP is built to be organized, prepped, and put into action by people who meet socially on a regular basis. It simply might not be fully-realizable as a convention game. It can be played for fun at conventions, but only pieces and parts can be perceived and enjoyed, or at best, a rushed version can be squished together.
Really playing
it may not be something one merely tastes.
So here are some thoughts on the points made so far and what they have to do with my prep and vice versa. The first one has to do with adversity.
I cannot say for sure of course, but it seems to me as if you are investing a bit too much in their hero-stories, as a participant, and not enough as the adversity which makes their hero-stories work. Thinking back on our WGP game from GenCon last year, one of the most productive elements of play for me was that I, as GM, had absolutely no investment at all in protecting any particular one of the heroes' Aspects. Is it possible that you were hopping into a player's seat with him, once in a while, and rooting for a hero (e.g. Debris reconciles with her brother, et cetera)?
It's hard to explain this, actually, because
rooting
for a hero* is indeed something I did while playing Dark Omen. I think it's the "getting into the chair" with the player that's the problem, and having that affect my choice of cards. Since the game really shows its brilliant colors
after
a few Aspects are Devastated - well, then, devastate them! I understand hosing oneself as a player but choosing a sub-optimal card, sure; I don't see a productive point in softballing player-characters as a GM, at all. Not in this game.
You and I have played tons and tons of My Life with Master. We both know that if the GM gets soft-hearted about the player-characters, it only dilutes the productive power-structure of the rules and hurts the game experience. Same goes for the demons in Sorcerer, as we both know as well.
I thought about why you, of all people, are doing this - the guy who really knows that a Marvel-ish superhero operates in a kind of Vietnam War of the mind,** in which nothing about his starting point is sacred. I also thought a bit about what you wrote in our thread, that you were a bit surprised to find yourself fighting so hard to win a conflict at one point.
Then I thought about my current prepping. I came up with a Struggle and decided to Scratch-Pad everything - Struggle, heroes, Rogues Gallery - but not make the actual sheets or the Plan yet. I'd have the players choose which Aspects they'd put on the sheets, which side of the Struggle they're on, and which Aspects are "strifed." I'm working toward my strengths as a GM, which is to say, solid and relevant villain-motivation very fast. I am confident I can choose one of the villains and outline a Plan based on the player-chosen Strife Aspects in the space of ten minutes at most.
And you know what? I'm already rooting for the characters I made up. I'm already looking at their aspects and fantasizing how they might end up based on Strife and Suffering status. I'm already speculating ahead, after some Aspect gets Transformed by a villain, and what might come of that. I'm on their damned side already! I made them up, after all. I can easily imagine what effects that might have on my card-play choices, as GM, when someone else is playing them ... and I can imagine further how that might turn into a habit after so many years of doing it.
Is it possible that you like these characters too much? That having invented most or all of them, that they are a bit too much yours, in play? Maybe it's time to retire Debris and the other much-loved, much-exampled, and much-played characters you've been using for nigh on five years now.
The second thought concerns Conflicts. I kind of squinted when I read about the fight with the Utopian, and went back to the book. Surely conflicts don't have to be fisticuffs, necessarily? And yup, the rules are clear that a conflict doesn't have to be a fight, and that seems mighty applicable to the Utopian.
I don't really know how to ask it politely ... given what had happened already in play via Enrichment and table-talk, what led you to pick a fight by, well, having a
fight?
Would not a press conference be just the thing? Or perhaps, frame directly to a scene right after the heroes have defeated some generic villain (i.e. let that be total inter-scene Color), and have the Utopian show up to take the credit with reporters crowding 'round? Or maybe the Utopian tries to recruit them to a fine new super-group he is sponsoring, for which they might be the "lucky" subs if someone has a cold? Those all sound like conflict scenes to me without a punch thrown or an eyebeam blasted.
Again, speculation: maybe it's the demo or con-play context. Perhaps showcasing that WGP can do "real super-fights" is a bit of a priority then, especially because people might be skeptical that these hippy-softy games can do "real" combat. Is it possible that you shifted to a fight out of long habit, rather than working from what had happened during Enrichments?
I recognize that none of the above might be accurate. It''s probably better to regard it as what's going on in my mind between reading the thread and working on my prep. But if any of it fits to whatever extent, I'd be interested to know.
Best, Ron
* To any Australians reading this, yeah, yeah, I know. Get over it.
** I am not kidding. This is probably only meaningful, though, to people who were reading Marvel comics before the mid-late 1980s, after which the effect I'm talking about was scrubbed clean from the company, from the comics, and from the characters. And from our culture, but never mind that ...
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