my first post, my CCG, and pictures!

[williamhessian]

this is my first post. i am so excited to find this forum (i found it by searching google). In the last ten years i have designed 4 CCG (or varied CCG) games in my past, none of which got much further than play testing. Its the complicated system of statistical editing that I always get stuck on. but recently I came up with my best game yet:



(the images are very crude at this point, i will be signing a more polished design for the cards as I progress with the project)

I have hand drawn a test set of cards (35 of them so far) to be play tested. Currently I have played 25 games and have plans to continue adding new characters to my game.

My game is based on very simple rules, but within them is a very complicated strategic gameplay.

I am extremely excited to hear others journeys getting from concept to finished product. I run a gallery in Minnesota, and do custom airbrush art, when I get home I draw my own CCG.

I am trying to figure out how to print sets of my sample cards and then send them to interested parties to play test the game. I am not trying to make lots of money with my game, instead I am trying to merge artwork and CCG together and make cards that are very appealing and unique and hard to collect. So for those of you who might be interested in playtesting my game, getting sets of my promo cards, and give helpful critique of my game (to make it the best it can be) please email me and let me know. When the cards are ready I will be mailing out sets to those on my list.

more about my card game:
http://beardedbunnyblog.blogspot.com/2008/02/inventing-my-own-card-game-pictures.html

my email:
william.hessian@gmail.com

[Nev the Deranged]

Interesting card design. So, how's it work?

[williamhessian]

Thanks Nev,

Its very simple, each side of the card is a statistic or catergory, when lined up against cards facing upside down sides match up and therefore battle. Your monsters must beat my monster by defeating two of the four sides of my monster/warrior. Although the design isnt finished, each red/green side rectangle will eventually have a tiny logo designating different elements or types. 

Also, my game is very limited in card numbers to enhance the relationship with your own deck of cards. You will have either 10 or 12 total cards in your deck. You will draw a hand of three warriors and will never have more then three cards. The goal is to simply capture/kill more of your opponents monsters then they do of your own.

The fun thing about the game, is that all cards have a point system which makes them more or less even to every other card. No rarity, just a different dispensement of powers. Thus also making it very easy for playing to create their own characters/ or create your own power scheme for each individual monster (in the long run future of the game).

There are a few other rules, and special cards that come into play, including playing cards face down to hide their identity, brick wall sides, point transfer characters, the all seeing eye, ect.

I've been able to explain the game to anyone that plays within 5 mins and play a competitive game within 20 minutes. Which i am very happy about.

I am currently going through a distribution system based on all my special cards and every possible pattern of point distribution and making sure their arent any unfair combinations or strategies which would prove to be unbeatable. So far it seems incredibly balanced.

Any other questions? Any concerns?

[williamhessian]

two more promo cards to see.

[Nev the Deranged]

Interesting. The side-dots remind me of both Z*G, and a martial-arts based card game of my own design that's buried in one of the many folders on my bookshelf. The round and square sections are kind of intriguing- I like symbols whose functions are not immediately apparent, but intuitive once you know what they mean. I also like symbols whose functions are immediately apparent, but I like them in a different way.

The art is clever, too. The little smog beast amuses me.

So, it sounds like you've done a lot of "alpha" playtesting (meaning, teaching people to play and then playing with them), and gotten good responses. That's cool. Have you done any "beta" playtesting, meaning giving testers a couple decks and the rules and seeing if they can figure out how to play based solely on the text of the rules, without any input from you? Having done some card/board game design myself, I can say that it's really easy to think you've written a clear set of rules when in reality half the rules are purely in your head.

What's the theme of the game? The four creatures you've shown so far seem pretty varied... does the game have a fiction or setting, or is it just a "make up some wacky creatures and throw down" kind of thing?

[Ron Edwards]

Hiya,

Usually, images aren't a good idea in Forge posts. I've been known to edit posts to change images into links, although I always put in a note when I do.

In this case, the images are important to the discussion, so the ones posted so far can stay as they are. However, for the rest of the thread, now that people have the basic idea of what the cards look like, please make links to the images, just links, so the pictures don't show up here.

Best, Ron
Forge moderator

[_haroharo_]

Hi William,

  The game looks interesting but what I am concerned about is how does it play? From what I understand gameplay will take place on some sort of grid-type of field where you can place cards next to each other. Is this correct? If so, this reminds me greatly of Triple Triad which is a card game in the Final Fantasy VIII videogame( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triple_Triad#Triple_Triad ) although it seems a more complex version of that game as you plane to add special feautures to the sides like brick walls, etc. I like that it is easy to play but have you gathered feedback from players about the gameplay? Specifically, playtesters who are not your friends who critiqued anything or have commented on the actual fun factor of the game? I have a PlayStation Portable application for Triple Triad which I actually found quite addicting, but I was playing against a computer. Would this game actually be something you would want to bring to your friends to play? Why would I dump Magic: The Gathering for a simpler game that - excuse my phrase - is a dumbed down card game? Also, would I want to play more than one game in a row?

  So far your idea is good in that the gameplay is simple, the cards will be collectible with nice art, you'll hold give-a-ways, etc. But the main concern is how fun the game actually is.

Best of luck,
_haroharo_

[Willow]

Welcome to the Forge!

The images look cool.  I'd play a game with those.

I believe I read something about Guild of Blades starting up a POD Card Game service this year, though you'd have to get the details from them.

[Ron Edwards]

Here are the threads that Ryan (Guild of Blades) posted about that: POD card printing, maybe and more recently (briefly), Guild of Blades, 2007 year in review. Also, Nate Peterson has a lot of experience getting cards printed well and cheaply, so maybe he can add some pointers.

Best, Ron

[williamhessian]

Nev, the theme of the game is sort of an orgy of monsters. I wanted to leave the world vague enough to be open to all possible characters/monsters. So it is a lot more along the lines of your random monsters throw down description at this point. You touched on a point of focus for me, which is having a card design that is completely wordless, and vague, yet mysterious. Once you learn the basic rules everything makes sense. The BETA testing concern is a very good one, I am currently building a list of interested people through craigslist and a few other forums to beta test once my prototype printing is finished.

Moderator Ron, I understand. No more images will be posted. Links from now on, thanks for the heads up.

Haro, you hit on some interesting points. My game is similar to Triple Triad actually, which I never got into enough to understand the core workings of that mini game. My game is slightly different because the grid is not limited to 9X9, it is an endless grid. Plus, as you mentioned the special characters add a different strategy to the game. As far as your concern for fun factor, that is basically what I need to find out next. I dont think my game will be a game people stop playing magic:TG for. Its more a game that deals with a different system of strategy and gameplay that hopefully is a fun alterior to already successful popular games. Playing more than one game in a row shouldn't be much of an issue because the games are extremely varied and different from one to the next.

[williamhessian]

willow,
thanks. im very glad to be here. it is a really cool forum.

thanks to you and Ron for the links to the POD thread. I have visited and left my interested reply. That would work perfect for me once they are able to allow orders.

when people go into BETA testing. what is the best way to find good testers? I dont want to be sending out proto type cards and questionaire to non experienced players, or people simply looking for some free cards. How do i ensure finding people who are really interested in trying the game and giving feedback?

any help?

[masqueradeball]

Just so you know, IMO, you shouldn't change the look of the cards. There very cool in that "hand made" sort of way, you can totally see the care that was put into making them, and it makes them look totally unique. Just my opinion though, maybe more polish is the way to go for you.

[williamhessian]

hmm. i really appreciate your comments about the handmade look. i do want to have a background, which will be beneficial for gameplay and for visual appeal. the background will be varied for each card, but will fade to white at the tops, thus making them more distinguishable to which way is up. This is important for clarification purposes in the actual gameplay.

i do also have a huge network of artist friends and will be looking for artists to draw, and divise power schemes for their own characters. this way there will be a diverse group of characters as the game rolls along.

maybe your idea of keeping them completely hand drawn is smart.

any other opinions?

[Nev the Deranged]

It may be short notice for you, depending on how far in advance you like to plan, but Forge Midwest, coming up in March, might be a good place to get some beta playtesting done and get some good feedback. Quite a few people use FMW as a testing ground for their games-in-progress. I have not yet decided if I am going, but if I do, I'd be up for trying your game.

Also, look around and see if there isn't a local game day or Go Play event or other such mini (or macro) con in your area where you might find willing testers.

[williamhessian]

good thinking. where is forge midwest held? i think if i went crazy trying to get cards ready I may be able to have stuff ready to try. id be scrambling though.

i will also search around for local events. I am always on the lookout for those types of things, but less proactively than i probably should be. thanks for the help Nev. much appreciated.