PC Advancement Struggles

[tarafore]

I've been working on an advancement system for my Tarafore System http://www.rpg.net/columns/list-column.phtml?colname=talesfromtherockethouse (I should probably put an SRD document on the web instead of directing people to the RPGnet column in which I outline the game.  Also, please ignore the GNS-related column.  Turns out I conflated the rec.games.frp.advocacy terms with the GNS terms...which led me to start lurking here again, so I'd actually know what I'm talking about).

The system's almost 8 years old, and has seen extensive alpha testing, some beta testing, and a ton of revision.  But one thing that's never really gelled is an actual system for "character advancement." 

Tarafore uses a questionnaire and conversation based character creation process, with the people involved bearing the responsibility for creating appropriate characters.  Though I do have an alternate method for groups who don't feel comfortable with the default "Subjective Character Creation Process," nobody's ever chosen to use it.  It didn't feel right to duct-tape an "experience point" system onto this (and levels were just out of the question). 

In all of the chronicles I've been involved in (which is probably fewer than 1/2 of the ones that have been run using my system, a fact that really makes me smile), nobody's ever complained about the lack of an advancement system.  But I still want to make one, mainly because I'm thinking of taking this puppy public, and I think the RPG world at large might have an issue with the utter lack of an "experience" system.  Maybe this is because, with the way we do character creation, they get the character they want, not the one they can afford.

However, I may have a solution.  Inspired by Ben's "Motivations:" http://merukis.net/wiki/index.php/Main/Motivation<are

[Troy_Costisick]

Heya,

In all of the chronicles I've been involved in (which is probably fewer than 1/2 of the ones that have been run using my system, a fact that really makes me smile), nobody's ever complained about the lack of an advancement system.

Welcome to the Forge!  I recently wrote an article on my blog about advancement.  Here's the link: http://socratesrpg.blogspot.com/2008/03/is-character-advancement-necessary.html

I think it's useful to not look at advancement just as a mechnaical process of the rules but also a a negotiation process between players.  Characters change in significant ways over time.  Not all of those changes need to be explicitly laid out in mechanic steps in the rule book.  If you read the article and have any questions, let me.

Peace,

-Troy

[tarafore]

Thanks for the advice!  I read the articles, and I've found them very helpful.  I like your blog overall - you have a lot of good things to say.

Thanks again!

[FrankBrunner]

I like the idea of players setting their own goals and using those as milestones for advancement. I have a couple of comments/questions/issues.

1) When are the goals set? Can they change afterwards? Is there a limit on the number of goals a character can have? I can imagine characters (especially in a group game) becoming side-tracked by other characters' stories, new discoveries, plot developments, and more. A player might feel torn between investigating a new story or relationship and his old goals (which reward the character with advancement). A more open-ended advancement system, which awards experience based on whatever a character does, doesn't present this conflict.

2) If the system is sufficiently player-driven, do players really need to set goals for advancement? That is, if the players are in control of the story, then something as simple as a "2 points per session played" system could suffice because the players are by definition moving toward their goals? They are, after all, the ones deciding on the course of play. On the other hand, perhaps a codified goal-based advancement system will prevent games with the intention of being player-driven from going off-track (on-track?) and becoming railroad games on the GM's chosen train.

Troy, I like the points you bring up in your blog about the necessity of character advancement and the three areas of advancement. I'm interested in hearing what you have to say about advancement systems that combine those three areas and help them to play off of each other. For example, advancement systems that combine small scale with mechanics could employ some sort of interpersonal or emotional mechanic.