[Spellbound Kingdoms] Question re: political correctness and/or taste

[FrankBrunner]

Right now, I'm using the term "savage" in my game for a fighting style and a character class. Do you think anyone would be offended by that (or maybe you are)? Perhaps just go with "barbarian"? The etymologies are a mixed bag to me (woodsman vs. foreigner) but I like the freshness of savage. If it will offend, however, I don't want it.

Secondly, I have the chance to purchase some really great, museum/gallery-quality art. One of the pieces is a tasteful female nude. The scene shows her sleeping and dreaming of birds, men, horses. It goes a tad beyond topless. Do you think that would offend folks?

Feedback appreciated! Also, if this is not the right forum, Ron or whoever please feel free to slide it over to wherever it should be.

[Illetizgerg]

Hey Frank. Of course, this is entirely my own opinion, however I personally don't see any kind of problem with "savage". I can understand that it might have a slightly offensive tone because it has been used often in the past for inflammatory racial slurs (Native Americans being called "savages" comes to mind), however I don't think its offensive to call a barbarian type class that.

As for the artistic nude, I have mixed feelings. Personally, I have no problem with nudity, however when I think about it I wouldn't really appreciate male nudity, so I don't think it is really right for me to hold a double standard. Furthermore I know pretty much all of my friends wouldn't appreciate any kind of nudity in RPG books, so I might advise you against it. I don't think that it's an ethical question, I just don't think it would be terribly tasteful.

- Gregory Zitelli

[madunkieg]

Savage or Barbarian (or other options): these terms were both used by cultures to denote members of certain other cultures as lesser people, and therefore targets for abuse, enslavement, or even slaughter. If that's how it is in your game, then, by all means, use either one. Neither is less offensive than the other. If, however, those other cultures are instead treated with respect in your game, neither term is appropriate.

On purchasing a museum-quality picture of a nude: even pictures of scantily clad people could offend somebody, and it wouldn't matter to them if it was a Michaelangelo original. That's not really the point, though. Is the art something you would treasure? Is it work that you respect? Do you surround yourself with friends and others who respect your tastes? If so, then make the purchase.

[FrankBrunner]

Thanks for the input. In case it wasn't clear, the art piece is for inclusion in my game, and that is why I was wondering about it.

The savages are not treated with respect by the Kingdoms and folks who consider themselves civilized. So the term "savage" is consistent within the cultures of the setting. Glad to hear it's not an immediate hot-button word in the real world; just wanted to check in on that. Thanks.

[madunkieg]

It was not clear. If the art is for inclusion in your game, consider the following: is your game to be sold to minors, or is it going to be sold in a place where depictions of nudity could violate laws. While I believe that such laws go overboard, they will still either prevent your game from being sold to certain audiences.

[electricpaladin]

I disagree with madunkieg. Sure, that is the way those terms were used in the past. However, it is not my opinion that they are currently so loaded that they cannot be re-contextualized in your game to mean something slightly different. Some words are really ruined for general use by current political trends ('gay', for example, will probably never mean 'happy and carefree' again), but I don't think this applies to 'barbarian' or 'savage.' Of course, that's my opinion. I could be wrong.

As far as the art... here's my opinion on cheesecakey art and nudes in gaming books: you are sending a message to your audience with every choice you make in your book. By including pictures of naked people, you are saying "I kind of want to titillate and excite you in this book," which will probably cut down on your readership among people who want to think of their roleplaying as a completely mature and classy experience. If that doesn't bother you, go ahead. If it adds to the feel of the game, I have never looked askance at the occasional bit of tastefully sexy artwork in a gaming book.

However, be careful about the message this sends to heterosexual female and gay male gamers. If you choose to include some sexually exciting artwork in your game, but only choose to excite straight male gamers who read your book, you are sending the message "this book is only for the straight male gamers - the rest of you aren't as welcome." Other people are going to read your book and feel marginalized and left out. I don't think it's your intent to exclude anyone, but we need to be careful these days. We live in a world that dumps a lot of baggage at the feet of innocent people. It isn't nice and it isn't fair, but it's true. If we all do our best and act with forethought and sensitivity, I firmly believe we can make the world better bit by bit.

What is the solution? Either send a different message by including eye candy for everyone or avoid the issue altogether by having your art keep it's clothes on. That's my two cents.

[Greg 1]

I would go ahead and use the word "savage".  It shows disrespect, so if the "savages" in your world are regarded with disrespect, it is an ideal term for them.

[mholmes52]

From Dictionary.com

Barbarian
-noun
1.   a person in a savage, primitive state; uncivilized person.
2.   a person without culture, refinement, or education; philistine.
3.   (loosely) a foreigner.
4.   (in ancient and medieval periods)
a.   a non-Greek.
b.   a person living outside, esp. north of, the Roman Empire.
c.   a person not living in a Christian country or within a Christian civilization.
5.   (among Italians during the Renaissance) a person of non-Italian origin.
-adjective
6.   uncivilized; crude; savage.
7.   foreign; alien.

Savage
–adjective
1.   fierce, ferocious, or cruel; untamed
2.   uncivilized; barbarous.
3.   enraged or furiously angry, as a person.
4.   unpolished; rude
5.   wild or rugged, as country or scenery
6.   Archaic. uncultivated; growing wild.
–noun
7.   an uncivilized human being.
8.   a fierce, brutal, or cruel person.
9.   a rude, boorish person.
10.   a member of a preliterate society.

Savage and barbarian are extremely close in definition. Use whichever you prefer

As for the artwork, if you like the piece, but are unsure as to the appropriateness, I would see if there was a way to crop it to show the parts that you really like, which I assume is the dreams, and see how little of the nudity you can show while still retaining the piece. Just because the piece shows nudity doesn't mean that you have to use the entire piece.

[lumpley]

If you subordinate your creative vision to the prudery of the game store, you're fucked. Fucked, fucked, fucked. You can't design your game or your game book by calculating how few people you can possibly alienate.

-Vincent

[FrankBrunner]

As far as the art... here's my opinion on cheesecakey art and nudes in gaming books...

I hear you. This piece, though, isn't cheesecakey at all (at least not in my opinion), and that's why I was wondering about it. It's impressionist in style, and its subject and presentation are somewhat similar to Botticelli's Birth of Venus, if that helps.

And Vincent - yeah, point taken, no use trying to alienate the fewest people. I just don't want to alienate everybody.