Looking For Structure - These Kids Need A GM!

[LandonSuffered]

b]wacky RPGs <InSpectres, and liked it so much they purchased it).

It turned into a bit of a marathon.  In between play time with the dog, eating, and going to see Iron Man, and the mandatory Warhammer 40K battles, we had a chance to play (in order):

Once Upon a Time
(from Pantheon)
Capes Lite<Capes is the only one that uses dice.  I thought that I had them timed in kind of an evolutionary order (from most free form to most rules crunchy).

It was a rough haul.

My brother sat in for the Once Upon a Time<Adam, age 32<Spencer, age 10: (interrupts Aspect) and so the thief ran away to look for a FAERY that could help him.  But what he instead found was a vicious WOLF that chased him and bit his arm off!  So he decided to go hide in some RUINS.
-   Zach, age 14: (interrupts Place) and in the ruins he finds A DOOR. Behind the door is an ENEMY.  And the enemy happened to be an evil PRINCE, and now he was going to kill him.
-   Me: (interrupts CharacterGrave and Watery was just me and the kids. Zach, wise to the convention of the genre, decided to choose Jodie (the female sub pilot and 2nd in command) figuring he was most likely to survive, though his initial impulse was to take the Navy Seal (he wanted to go in locked and loaded).  I chose Ted the scheming corporate exec because I figured he would be fun to play (like Paul Reiser in Aliens<Capes Lite <InSpectres <D&D (the current D20 version has a bot of a steep learning curve) and running them through some dungeon encounters.  As a pet project I am working on a revision of an earlier (non-D20) version of Gamma World<Warhammer (though also asked when playing InSpectres and when choosing abilities in click-locks for CapesInSpectres, and liked it so much they purchased it).

It turned into a bit of a marathon.  In between play time with the dog, eating, and going to see Iron Man, and the mandatory Warhammer 40K battles, we had a chance to play (in order):

Once Upon a Time
(from Pantheon)
Capes Lite<Capes is the only one that uses dice.  I thought that I had them timed in kind of an evolutionary order (from most free form to most rules crunchy).

It was a rough haul.

My brother sat in for the Once Upon a Time<Adam, age 32<Spencer, age 10: (interrupts Aspect) and so the thief ran away to look for a FAERY that could help him.  But what he instead found was a vicious WOLF that chased him and bit his arm off!  So he decided to go hide in some RUINS.
-   Zach, age 14: (interrupts Place) and in the ruins he finds A DOOR. Behind the door is an ENEMY.  And the enemy happened to be an evil PRINCE, and now he was going to kill him.
-   Me: (interrupts CharacterGrave and Watery was just me and the kids. Zach, wise to the convention of the genre, decided to choose Jodie (the female sub pilot and 2nd in command) figuring he was most likely to survive, though his initial impulse was to take the Navy Seal (he wanted to go in locked and loaded).  I chose Ted the scheming corporate exec because I figured he would be fun to play (like Paul Reiser in Aliens<Capes Lite <InSpectres <D&D (the current D20 version has a bot of a steep learning curve) and running them through some dungeon encounters.  As a pet project I am working on a revision of an earlier (non-D20) version of Gamma World<Warhammer (though also asked when playing InSpectres and when choosing abilities in click-locks for Capes

[Arturo G.]

Interesting report.

It is impossible for me to try to evaluate the reasons of your nephews gamist attitudes. Perhaps it is what they are learning due to most games they have around. But my experience is that people who have not been previously exposed to role-games tend to grasp very easily in narrative dynamics.

From my experience, narrative oriented games are definitively not more advanced. But people should go to the table knowing the kind of experience they should expect.

Did you clearly explained them that the objective of the game was a different thing? I think that perhaps you just need a game with a clear lack of winning conditions. Explain them that it is a different type of game. Explain them what they should do in that game to get fun. I think they will probably do a really honest try.

By the way, I have the feeling that in Once Upon a Time the win condition imposed by ending your hand of cards is an incentive to invest, but at the same time a hindrance for coherent story-development. All depends on the players attitude.

[dindenver]

Landon,
  I think there are two things you can try to help remedy this situation:
1) Give them a go at GMing, it will be rocky at first, but once they get the hang of improvising and deciding major story elements, a lot of your narrative game issues start to go away
2) Give them a chance to play a few narrative games that include a GM so that they can get a feel of adding part of the story element without having to take on the full boat all at once. Games like Donjon and Otherkind come to mind. In fact, a session or two of Otherkind might be exactly what you need to find out what is important to them to narrate. When they put a high dice on narrative rights, perk up and try and figure out why so that games like Capes and others go more smoothly with an understanding of what they think it is groovy to narrate, you know?
  I don't think narrative games are more "advanced" but it is a skill you have to learn, just like anything else in roleplaying.

[LandonSuffered]

Thanks folks!

dindenver:

When we played InSpectres, Zach (the older brother) DID try his hand at the GM wheel for two missions...but remember that in InSpectres the players are adding most of the "story elements" through their successful use of skills.

I actually just acquired a copy of Otherkind actually, so that's certainly a possibility (though actually I got it to see if I could rip anything off for a new game I'm working on...).