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[Under My Skin]...got under my skin. Now, with pictures!
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Topic: [Under My Skin]...got under my skin. Now, with pictures! (Read 4858 times)
EarthenForge
Member
Posts: 12
[Under My Skin]...got under my skin. Now, with pictures!
«
on:
August 21, 2008, 04:41:28 PM »
img]http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3041/2783879415_ef98b6074e.jpg?v=0[/img]
We started o
Claire and Judy had a scene, chatting just like any long-time good friends would. There was honesty, warmth, and encouragement in their words and expressions and we begin to see Judy urging her friend to find ways to enjoy life a little more and ask for help with the girls. They set a date to go shopping.
Martin and Judy meet up accidentally, in the park, I think. And they continue flirting and learning about each other.
Claire and Dean meet up to try out some of their creative ideas for the music project. The New Flames grow.
Judy and Dean are still lovingly together, but neither of them have confessed their relationship sins to each other.
Claire and Judy had a scene, chatting just like any long-time good friends would. There was honesty, warmth, and encouragement in their words and expressions and we begin to see Judy urging her friend to find ways to enjoy life a little more and ask for help with the girls. They set a date to go shopping.
Martin and Judy meet up accidentally, in the park, I think. And they continue flirting and learning about each other.
Claire and Dean meet up to try out some of their creative ideas for the music project. The New Flames grow.
Judy and Dean are still lovingly together, but neither of them have confessed their relationship sins to each other.
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Robert Bohl
Member
Posts: 525
Re: [Under My Skin]...got under my skin. Now, with pictures!
«
Reply #1 on:
August 21, 2008, 05:21:42 PM »
This was a wonderful game. Rachel: I, too, felt bad for you for being left out of the fake infidelity. Such a strange thing to feel bad about, right? I did enjoy "safely" flirting with your character. In my mind, Dean was more teasing you than anything else, but he was also kind of rapacious and probably would've taken advantage if you called him on it.
Oh man when you kept getting up to get drinks for other people? That shit fucked with my head. I was furious at Martin for quite a while after that, mostly because he didn't even seem to notice (which I'm sure was how Ron was playing it).
One of the really strong moments for me was playing the dad who was leaving. I started off the scene thinking that the news was already out in the open, which is why I was playing it so matter-of-factly. When Paula's dialogue indicated that she didn't know what it was about, I had a moment of panic. Then I decided that her husband constructed it so that she couldn't freak out 'cause the daughter was present. What you guys didn't see is the picture Tobias was drawing. It was amazingly child-like, but it
wasn't
a happy family scene. It was mom, dad, and baby, but mom was crying.
Which brings me to the two horrible things I had him say. One was, "I know you want to keep the kids, and if that's what you need to feel good about this, I'm ok with it." That's a line I was told by my son's mom when we were having our break-up discussion in real life, so it was gratifying to see how evil you all thought it was. The other was the moment where I turned the guilt for making the child upset around on Clair. I accused her of being histrionic in front of the child and screwing with her head, and then left.
It was probably the most intense thing in the game. Everyone hated me so much. It was exhilirating.
There's so much more that can be said about this game. I'm so full with it, I'm bursting.
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Game:
Misspent Youth
: Ocean's 11 + Avatar: The Last Airbender + Snow Crash
Shows:
Oo! Let's Make a Game!
: Joshua A.C. Newman and I make a transhumanist RPG
EarthenForge
Member
Posts: 12
Re: [Under My Skin]...got under my skin. Now, with pictures!
«
Reply #2 on:
August 21, 2008, 07:53:39 PM »
Thanks for sharing, Rob! I *love* hearing other perspectives on this kind of thing. More monologues would bring this stuff out to the audience within the game, but it takes practice, I think, to process thoughts and spit them out in a timely manner in a way that makes the story more interesting *right* then.
Your take on Claire's ex was fantastic and awful.
It's funny about the flirting - Kelly was totally oblivious. I don't think she realized the options life could offer her. The "Superior" issue messed with my head - it was such false ego. A crumbling wall to protect a rather fragile creature. I could relate to some aspects of it, but I could clearly see that she needed to open her eyes big time.
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Ron Edwards
Global Moderator
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Posts: 16490
Re: [Under My Skin]...got under my skin. Now, with pictures!
«
Reply #3 on:
August 21, 2008, 08:54:40 PM »
Hello,
Here I was composing, and someone already did the heavy lifting. Thanks Kelly!
1. Martin's issue was idealism, not anger - anger was one of Kelly's words and the basis for her line that played the most important part in our story. I should also point out that alcohol was also one of her words, and not actually an issue for Martin beyond his concern for her well-being. Rob, I did react strongly to Kelly during the party scene, and paid attention to Judy to keep from blowing up about it, but I think you were interacting with others and missed it; I wonder if Tobias and Em caught it.
2. Boy, the Martin & Dean clash was pure poison, wasn't it? I have to admit that I the player really found Dean hard to take as well - for such an "open say-what-you-think" guy, he was the most manipulative, passive-aggressive twerp. Finding his good side as an audience member was kind of hard, and in fact, I was only able to do so through the lens of playing Martin, who did find a way to like him after all. Or at least put aside resenting and provoking him as not worth the effort, and seeing his talent. I also thought Claire and Martin might have had a coffee shop scene; we never did get to see that friendship in action.
3. I should point out that my current readings and feelings about Islam and the other Abrahamic religions also informed this character greatly; playing him was just as much a "dive in and see what happens" for that concept as it was for all the relationship and poly-whoosis material. That's why the alcohol thing is important. As an only minimally-practicing Muslim, Martin was not opposed to drinking as such and enjoyed it pretty much like anyone else. His line was that Kelly not drink without it being a shared agreement to do so between the two of them, based on the term on her sheet. Something, I might add, she violated pretty often - Em pointed out that by the rules, Kelly could essentially cross lines without mechanics/plot consequences.
4. I think that was a key thing for me, which hits straight at the heart of my family history with alcoholism, and which was particularly hard, yet in a productive effort sort of way, for me to express through the medium of Martin. The character was almost 90% subtext, as I look back on it, and not a whole lot of it was accessible. You don't love an alcoholic, or someone you fear is an alcoholic, simply by getting angry with them. You have to find another way. Rachel, I don't know if you tuned into this, but my impression is that you did. Maybe that's why the affair didn't
actually
kill the relationship for you. I think the issue between them really was about anger, and how it interfered with their (surprisingly successful) attempt to turn her superiority complex and his idealism to positive ends. Funny how this kind of uptight pair
really really
didn't, ultimately, have any problems regarding sex.
5. I held back a weeny bit during our initial disclosures and regretted it severely only a couple of scenes into play.
6. My temptation scene was extremely difficult by the rules, and I'd like to go over it in some detail. Kelly's line, which Martin struggled with, was expressing anger with her. Dean's line, which Judy struggled with, was having unprotected sex with someone. That was her line to decide to cross or not, and it seemed wrong to me to interfere with that content. I let that be completely up to her own dialogue with the angel and the devil, and kept my decision strictly focused getting angry with Kelly or not. So that put the character into an odd fictional space which - in terms of that fiction - actually matched the lame excuse that people make in real life, that they didn't "really" do it if they didn't mean to do it.
In reality, I am pretty dismissive of such talk, and I also imagine that Em and Tobias might disagree in game terms as well. After all, we'd already talked about how, technically, a character's
decision
to cross the line in question is what matters, not the act itself. In that case, the decision actually to go through with it would lie with Martin. However, that put me in a difficult space as an author/actor/participant, in that I did not want to undercut the intensity of the upcoming Dean & Judy story, which I think would be kind of lame if she merely
thought
about having unprotected sex (I mean, big whoop). And in the interest of full disclosure, Sarah played Judy with extraordinary charisma and I could not imagine Martin, or me, or practically anyone except Kagematsu, turning her down in that particular situation.
I do think some thought might go into parsing out how a player might be forced, or feel forced, into crossing his or her partner's line (not the one which is the focus of the scene) by validating the importance of the other character's decision. It's a system issue.
7. Regarding the sensations and issues of that scene as I struggled with the above issue as an actor (and I might add, quite nonverbally and nonreflectively), I want to point out that Martin turned wholly to what his angel was telling him, and the funny thing is, he was totally sincere - he didn't stifle his anger at Kelly, but rather, he let it go. It was silly. He was mad because she drank irresponsibly, for instance, but if that anger led him to be mean to her, why, that was just as bad as what she was doing to herself. It was then that he determined to see if she was willing to seek some help about it. (Later, when she did overdo it a bit at the birthday party, he wasn't mad - just noted it and tried to prepare for the fallout if necessary.)
8. I experienced some surprising surges of "I am married to this woman! And I'm glad!" during play, again, speaking through the lens of Martin. I dropped the ball, I think, in the scene in which I visited her in her office, because what hit me internally was that she was indeed still dedicated to helping others. Unlike many profs, here she was, busting butt to make sure her students were all taken care of. I'm not good enough an improv actor to recognize and seize such insights for immediate expression. Rachel, I'm curious - did you have any similar reactive or unreflective experiences about Martin, via Kelly? Don't get me wrong, I'm talking strictly about the fiction.
9. Here's another example of my atrophied stage instincts: when she busted the glass and walked out on me, I should have had Martin fall back on the sofa bed, cry out "oh God" in pain, and then after a second or two, turn toward the rumpus in the adjoining bedroom and shout, "Shut up in there!" It came to me scant seconds after the scene was over. I was awed by Rob's thespian skills in contrast to my fumbling about.
10. In one of the final scenes, Martin was pretty unkind in speaking of Judy to Kelly. I don't think that sat well with Em, who quizzed me a little bit about it afterwards. Here's the thing: in Martin's eyes, Judy's decisions didn't seem to concern anyone but herself and Dean. Perhaps that was tied to his annoyance with Dean, and realizing that whatever he and Judy might get up to, she was Dean's girl and that was that. But in the moment, what I was feeling via Martin was that Judy was deeply caring about people insofar as they related to her, but not about how they related to one another. This is not a general comment of mine upon polyamory, incidentally. As I mentioned in the brief after-play discussion, yes, Martin was being unfair in calling her stupid. I'd like to state here though that it wasn't about the open relationship as such, just the way that Dean and Judy both seemed to think the openness between them was somehow transitive to the relationships surrounding them.
Well, that was kind of a machine-gun fire list of stuff that has been kicking around in my head since we played.
Best, Ron
edited to fix a mis-applied person's name
«
Last Edit: August 21, 2008, 09:09:17 PM by Ron Edwards
»
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Ron Edwards
Global Moderator
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Posts: 16490
Re: [Under My Skin]...got under my skin. Now, with pictures!
«
Reply #4 on:
August 21, 2008, 09:02:38 PM »
Whoops, missed a couple points in reviewing your posts, guys.
Rob, I don't know if you could see it from where you were, but in the party scene, when Kelly kept getting up to "make drinks," she was knocking back shots alone thinking no one could see her. When you as Dean were pressing her to drink at the bar, I almost jumped up and screamed in frustration and anger that he was enabling a person with the beginnings of a serious problem, apparently out of the simple joy of manipulation.
Kelly, it's weird - I think I'll be reflecting on these two characters' marriage for a while. (And by the way, ignore my nosy question if you'd prefer. Don't know how that escaped deletion during my once-over.) I'm not convinced her staying in the marriage was an act of weakness. I had the sensation that the two characters had forgiven each other for not being perfect.
Best, Ron
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EarthenForge
Member
Posts: 12
Re: [Under My Skin]...got under my skin. Now, with pictures!
«
Reply #5 on:
August 22, 2008, 02:56:46 AM »
Awesome Ron! I'm bursting at the seams with replies, but I've gotta run off to work! I'll get back to this when I'm home.
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Niobe
Guest
Re: [Under My Skin]...got under my skin. Now, with pictures!
«
Reply #6 on:
August 22, 2008, 03:46:58 AM »
Hi people,
thank you so much for posting all this. Our UMS-session was for me one of the most intense experiences in a Gen Con packed with intense experiences. Thank you all so much!
I don't really know where to start, so I will just jump into the middle of things:
I absolutely noticed the way Martin was paying attention to Kelly in the first group scene when she got up to make drinks.
Playing a game like that so close to the chest would not have been my first impulse, but it was a big part of what made this whole thing so much of an experience. What impressed me most was the natural way everything fell into place. Best example: When Rob and I got together to talk about what our relationship would look like in the game, we independently both started out with the exact same idea of the relationship.
I learned a LOT about myself playing this game with you folk. Thank you! The one quizzing you about the negative things you said about Judy, Ron, was mainly me, because I wondered whether I could learn something from it about myself.
There was a point in the game where I disconnected a bit from my character, because in fact I as a player connected more with Dean than with Martin (and here I am strictly talking about the characters). I did not at all feel that Dean was manipulationg or passive-aggressive. My impression of him was that he in fact was very open with his opinions and feelings wich is something I like very much. On the other hand Martin with his pent up agggression and his airs of intellectual superiority (especially in the first group scene) rather frightened me.
This divergence between me and my character is what led to the "happy end" that I too find very ambigous. I was very surprised that Judy didn't at all have problems not telling Dean about her crossing his lines and still could be very emotionally open to him, because I don't think I, Sarah, would have been able to do that. I am much more like Dean and need to share everything with my partner.
I have since thought a lot about the opinions that were expressed in and around the game that this openness is not entirely healthy, and I am absolutely gratefull for that kind of input and the way it made me think, but I still think that I could not trust my partner if I could not be sure that he would tell me if something was wrong.
It was wonderfull playing with you folk and I hope I was able to show you how personally valuable it was to me. Also I am very glad that we are staying in contact.
Hugs
Sarah
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Robert Bohl
Member
Posts: 525
Re: [Under My Skin]...got under my skin. Now, with pictures!
«
Reply #7 on:
August 22, 2008, 03:53:46 AM »
That's interesting, Ron. I didn't see her knocking back shots in that scene. What I saw was her husband being cold to her and making her get drinks for everybody, and so I was encouraging her to break what I thought was a silly rule (because I didn't see her as alcoholic).
It is fascinating to me, too, how twerpy Dean came off to you. I totally get why he seemed like a manipulative shit to some people, but in almost every moment when I was playing him, I felt in the moment like what he was doing was as right and genuinely honest as he was capable of being. Basically, he took a good idea (being honest) too far, and had a very hard time not being pure about it, not being able to see the grey spaces between things.
I felt
extremely
uncomfortable with his "happy ending" being that he and Judy start to lie to each other. If that had been a movie or play or story I would be extremely conflicted about whether or not I liked it. When Sarah asked me at the end about that--challenged me on it, really--I immediately felt something like guilt. "Deception is good," was not what I was trying to say, but it was--and still is--extremely hard for me to articulate how the brand of aggressive honesty on display there is harmful, and what the other choices are that one can make in that situation.
Thorny, prickly, and fun as shit. Thanks, everybody.
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Game:
Misspent Youth
: Ocean's 11 + Avatar: The Last Airbender + Snow Crash
Shows:
Oo! Let's Make a Game!
: Joshua A.C. Newman and I make a transhumanist RPG
Ron Edwards
Global Moderator
Member
Posts: 16490
Re: [Under My Skin]...got under my skin. Now, with pictures!
«
Reply #8 on:
August 22, 2008, 07:53:57 AM »
Hi Rob,
This might be grading into a values-discussion rather than a discussion of our shared/created story, but I think it's OK as a follow-up to your statement of fascination.
Basically, I think there's a big difference between honesty and simply blurting out whatever one feels like at a given moment. I at least have thoughts, sensations, reactions, and possible utterances swimming through my mind at all time. It's not "honest" to give them all voice at every opportunity; it's glossolalia.
It actually goes deeper than that, though. I need to take it down to this next level because that's the one that's relevant to Dean. I've known a lot of people who tried to live "fully honestly," and in practice, what tends to happen is that they use an internal consult on how sincere they feel as a guide for speaking. If they feel sincere, then they speak.
The trouble is, feeling sincere is very easy to do - it's a behavior, not a condition. The people I've dealt with get so good at feeling sincere no matter what, they end up saying whatever no matter what ... and again, in practice, this becomes a tactic for influencing others' emotions and establishing control than any sort of communication from one person to another. This is the essence of hard-core salesmanship, for instance, and also, incidentally, successful spying and spy-handling in the real world. The internal sensation of sincerity becomes a whore for power.
This is what Dean was like, as I saw it; or more accurately, that's where this generally good-natured young man was headed if he didn't get some kind of perspective on it. I don't see it as about honesty at all. In fact, I now realize when I started liking the guy: when he said, correctly in my view, that he and Judy were trying to do this unusual thing on their own and kind of groping their way along without knowing whether and how people could be hurt by it.
Best, Ron
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Emily Care
Member
Posts: 1126
Re: [Under My Skin]...got under my skin. Now, with pictures!
«
Reply #9 on:
August 22, 2008, 08:04:37 AM »
Thanks for the great play report, Rachel! And the great discussion, everyone. It's ironic that these parallel but oh-so-different relationships ended up taking on elements of the other at the end. The open and honest relationship turning into one where you keep secrets, the monogamous one tolerating and not acknowledging the real depth of the hit it had taken from one partner straying. Very bittersweet happy endings indeed.
The characters seemed to hit home and feel real though. Ron, it's funny that you slip and refer to Rachel as Kelly a couple places in your posts.
Quote
Quote
10. In one of the final scenes, Martin was pretty unkind in speaking of Judy to Kelly. I don't think that sat well with Em, who quizzed me a little bit about it afterwards.
I was busy having my own judgements about the character. We probably all have our own way of seeing the story and the characters. In my eyes, Martin was blowing smoke in Kelly's eyes by denegrating Judy, or trying to convince himself that it was meaningless because he cared so little about her. It was a chilling, and very human, moment. I think we've all done that at some time or another. The conflicts between Martin and Dean were fascinating to watch, also. I literally thought they could come to butting heads at several moments. You guys played out some major territorial displays.
Quote
This divergence between me and my character is what led to the "happy end" that I too find very ambiguous. I was very surprised that Judy didn't at all have problems not telling Dean about her crossing his lines and still could be very emotionally open to him, because I don't think I, Sarah, would have been able to do that. I am much more like Dean and need to share everything with my partner.
I have since thought a lot about the opinions that were expressed in and around the game that this openness is not entirely healthy, and I am absolutely grateful for that kind of input and the way it made me think, but I still think that I could not trust my partner if I could not be sure that he would tell me if something was wrong.
I hope that's useful to you, Sarah. Sometimes the best way to know what we want is by seeing what doesn't work for us. Also, what people mean by honesty matters so much. Real honesty would seem to have to include taking responsibility for the effects of ones words. There were moments in the game that felt like honesty was being used as a weapon--Dean telling Judy he'd kissed someone else and pressuring her to be okay with it since "he'd done the right thing." The approach to being honest matters so much as well, but doesn't make being dishonest a virtue!
It was a pleasure to play with you all! Thank you so much for bringing so much to each part. And thank you, Tobias for your help and for introducing me and us all to this kind of labyrinth of the heart.
best,
Em
«
Last Edit: August 22, 2008, 08:07:26 AM by Emily Care
»
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Koti ei ole koti ilman saunaa.
Black & Green Games
EarthenForge
Member
Posts: 12
Re: [Under My Skin]...got under my skin. Now, with pictures!
«
Reply #10 on:
August 22, 2008, 12:43:36 PM »
Man, I will say it again: I *love* hearing everyone's take on the events.
So Ron - to clarify a bit, I don't think that Kelly's long term decision to make the marriage work was necessarily a thing of weakness. I think it's entirely possible that those characters could have gone on to have a very healthy relationship. My sadness for her (and yes, Emily - it is so very true that these characters begin to have a life of their own!) had to do more with moment-by-moment decisions. At the time I think she stayed because she didn't know what else to do. That's not always a bad thing, but it's not a decision made from strength, which would have helped her immensely. The ending happened rather fast and I was only beginning to process the affair as it was playing out. Considering her weaknesses, it seemed like one of the worst possible things that could have happened to her. And while she was certainly beginning to forgive Martin in the last scene, I think she still struggled with a lot of rage - rage that had nothing to do with her husband. I'd imagine that it would take her a very long time to get past what happened and deal with her own serious issues. If I could have had one more scene at the end that didn't erase anything previously, it would have been for her to say something like, "Hey Martin - remember when I said that there was nothing I was angry about? That wasn't true. If we're going to be more open with each other, you need to know that I'm still very angry about the affair." and go from there. I imagine that Martin probably would have handled that very well...
Also, I'll be honest, as Kelly, I didn't have that surge of enthusiasm for Martin *until* that "how we met scene," which was pretty cool. This was almost entirely due to bracing myself for the coming hurt. As a player I knew that trouble was coming and I allowed that feeling to seep into Kelly because it felt very much inline with her issues - not allowing people to get too close, expecting others to disappoint her, etc. Thanks for bringing that up - I hadn't actually thought about that until now.
The alcoholism with Kelly was indeed interesting. I was a little surprised that it didn't end up being openly addressed, but then, if we had openly addressed everything, our game would have been quite a bit longer. So this part of her character remains a bit vague. She was clearly abusing alcohol at times (good eye, Ron - she was totally knocking back shots at the party), but to what extent she had a problem was never completely defined.
Also, Ron, I get your frustration with the crossing the lines issues. Being unsure of what is okay and what isn't in terms of game structure and mechanics can be annoying - especially in a game like this where you don't want to interrupt the flow too much. I encountered this a bit, too, but found myself not minding overmuch in the long run, because a pretty compelling story was woven even so.
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Tobias Wrigstad
Member
Posts: 15
Re: [Under My Skin]...got under my skin. Now, with pictures!
«
Reply #11 on:
August 22, 2008, 08:05:59 PM »
Hey guys,
just some initial thoughts after reading through your posts.
Quote
Kelly wrote:
More monologues would bring this stuff out to the audience within
the game, but it takes practice, I think, to process thoughts and
spit them out in a timely manner in a way that makes the story
more interesting
right
then.
I actually think the opposite -- it would have made things easier.
Monologues are, at least to my mind, a great way of exploring your
character's thoughts and feelings. I like to throw players into
monologues for that reason -- you will discover things as you go
along. Let the monologues be the drivers, and the rest of the game
follow naturally.
Quote
Ron wrote:
I did react strongly to Kelly during the party scene, and paid
attention to Judy to keep from blowing up about it, but I think
you were interacting with others and missed it; I wonder if Tobias
and Em caught it.
I most surely did. My interpretation was that you were upset by
being poured a drink in public, and needing a smooth way out of
having to drink it. Which caused more public display than if you
hadn't touched it, which was excellent.
As a walking GM, I once approached you, stretching out my arm,
offering to take the drink away from you. My intent was to break
the invisible scenes, to make sure that your character's action
was seen, and help get the other players' attention to it. I don't
think you got that, but that's fine. It was a spur of the moment
thing.
Quote
Ron wrote:
I also thought Claire and Martin might have had a coffee shop
scene; we never did get to see that friendship in action.
Yeah, that is true. I was reluctant to suggest it because that
would have made Clare such a central figure, and while gossip
scenes can be fun, they aren't always that necessary in wholly
transparent play.
Quote
Ron wrote:
Kelly could essentially cross lines without mechanics/plot
consequences.
I think this is just as it should be. The lines are there to help
us focus on some things and to establish something that can be
clearly broken/crossed. The rest just follows naturally. I think
the game would have suffered if we had must somehow incorporate
plot consequences all the time. And oftentimes, not reacting
creates a more natural feel or interesting story.
Quote
Ron wrote:
I do think some thought might go into parsing out how a player
might be forced, or feel forced, into crossing his or her
partner's line (not the one which is the focus of the scene) by
validating the importance of the other character's
decision. It's a system issue.
I think these are important and valid points, and although it
would have been perfectly possible for Judy to hit the bar and
have unprotected sex with a total stranger following Martin's
dismissal, I don't think anyone would have been impressed by
that. I think the solution we eventually came up with was great.
I am not sure what "system issue" means here but I would agree
that the resolving of two individually designed conflicts in a
manner where they are dependent on each other is problematic. I
didn't see this in the game until you pointed it out, so thank
you. In the future, I think time should be spent before this
scene, or perhaps preferably before starting to play, to
brainstorm about the meanings and consequences of these
scenes. Maybe that is in the booklet already.
My gut reaction is that there is something to be said for this
potentially surrealistic intersections -- "how do we combine
unprotected sex and anger?" I suspect that may lead to things that
wouldn't have come out had we tailored everything from start.
Quote
Em wrote:
And thank you, Tobias for your help and for introducing me and
us all to this kind of labyrinth of the heart
My pleasure! I have told you before, and I'll tell you again, that
I am so happy to be able to come to GenCon and play jeepform games
written by others than the usual suspects! I am excited in seeing
what you will do with it, what parts that stick with you and what
you see that I don't.
Quote
Rachel wrote:
Also, I'll be honest, as Kelly, I didn't have that surge of
enthusiasm for Martin *until* that "how we met scene," which was
pretty cool.
I can totally dig this. I did not become emotionally invested in
your relationship until after this scene.
And, on a side-note, my mind started wondering -- thinking about
relationsships based on something awesome that happened initially
and how long it is actually possible to feed on that moment, spite
the fact that you are really not together with that person other
than in your mind. There is a game here somewhere.
Quote
Rachel wrote:
This was almost entirely due to bracing myself for the coming hurt
I so love this comment. I can relate and I think it is a good
thing. Sometimes, this will fuck up the story, but IMHO it is
always worth it if you realise what's going on and why you are
doing what you are doing. It is the experience of playing that
counts in the end.
I think, and this ties in to some stuff Sarah was saying in her
post, that you can learn a lot about yourself from watching how
you treat your character(s). What your impulses are, how you feel
when you are "hurting them" or "saving them" etc. This is such a
personal thing and hardly visible to other players (except if the
know you really, really, really well), but worth pointing out.
And this is of course not tied to jeepform or anything, but for me
it really stands out there, biased as I am.
--Tobias
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EarthenForge
Member
Posts: 12
Re: [Under My Skin]...got under my skin. Now, with pictures!
«
Reply #12 on:
August 24, 2008, 06:44:25 PM »
Thanks for your comments, Tobias.
About monologues, I'm really beginning to understand how important they are. I refer to them as difficult partly because I personally struggle to spit out my thoughts on demand and partly because I'm not in the practice of doing so in other games I play. But in saying this, I absolutely agree that they can and even should have a major impact on the game. I think that a lot of tabletop story games could benefit from monologues as well. Before my next Jeepform game, I'd like to discuss using them, because I don't think the technique is necessarily obvious to the average gamer.
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Tobias Wrigstad
Member
Posts: 15
Re: [Under My Skin]...got under my skin. Now, with pictures!
«
Reply #13 on:
August 24, 2008, 07:02:44 PM »
The notification tool rocks! I am writing job applications, which is sooo boring, so I am happy to
jump at this opportunity to think about something else for a little while.
I'm always up for discussing such things. Here, email or whatever.
The word monologue has some bad connotations, I think. I don't think they are supposed to be
theatrical monologues spat out as an uninterrupted flow. It is about finding out what you are
thinking (you = your character) and that is OK to take time. I mean, when I do monologues, I
oftentimes start out slowly, because I have little or no clue where I am going, and then, gradually,
as I hook into the character's thougt process, things speed up and I hear myself saying things
that I wouldn't have conciously thought of.
I see them as a tool for exploring the mind of the character. I guess I jump on your formulation
"spit out my thoughs on demand".
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EarthenForge
Member
Posts: 12
Re: [Under My Skin]...got under my skin. Now, with pictures!
«
Reply #14 on:
August 25, 2008, 12:50:38 PM »
(As long as no one cares, I think it's cool to keep this discussion on the thread rather than email since others may find it useful.)
So, interesting. I'd really like to see this in practice. I don't think it's too hard to figure out, but it sure makes the way easier to see how someone else adds this technique in. How do you personally tend to go about it? Do you verbally pause, make a gesture, or something else to distinguish the monologue from the dialog? Is it usually something quick - just a sentence or two? Also, do you do these very often, or perhaps just a couple of times during the game?
When I played in the Upgrade, I really enjoyed how Past and Future scenes could inform and direct the Present scene, often giving the players a little more to work with and respond to. It seems that monologues might do exactly that as well. There were a few times in our Under My Skin game that I was having trouble reading my fellow player's intentions - and I'm sure the reverse was true for them. It's a little frustrating to want to say "yes" to them but not know what the "yes" is. And, of course, you don't want to interrupt the flow of the scene, if possible, to have a meta-game discussion. Monologues might interrupt slightly, but they would avoid some of the above problems and I'd imagine they would ultimately make the scene more intense and compelling.
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