[Solar] Social and other Secrets

[Simon JB]

My group is currently playing a Solar campaign in Shadowrun's Seattle, and since I'm very much at home in the setting and the specifics of Shadowrun Proper, I'm writing quite some lists of setting crunch. I've focused primarily on magic and technology secrets, since this is so specific for the setting. My players like this very much, they like having a bit of the "shopping list" feel of older RPGs when it comes to possible tricks and tools for their characters, and so do I. Here's a few examples...

Social Secrets

• Friendly Face<
• Yakuza Connections<

Cybertech Secrets

• Bodyware<
• Wired Reflexes<
• Headware<
• Tactical Computer<
• Smartlink<
• Cyber Weaponry<
• Dermal Plating<
• Cyber Numbness<
• Cyber Zombie<

Gear Secrets

• Equipment<
• Signature Weapon<

Magic Secrets

• Physical Adept<
• Combat Adept<
• Killing Hands<
• Social Adept<
• Spellcaster<
• Conjurer<
• Shaman<
• Mystic Healer<
• Weapon Focus<
• Power Focus<
• Spirit Focus<
• Spell Focus (skill)<
• Fetish (skill)<

Okay, I don't expect y'all to read all that, but it's there for reference.

Now, my players asked me for more "world secrets", like more specific social secrets, and I'm happy to oblige. But I've sort of run dry of nice mechanics to use. The Secret of Yakuza Connections can of course be copy-pasted to every imaginable sub-culture, but that's a bit dull, isn't it?

So, have any of you got any nice suggestions for social secrets? Or other kinds of "world secrets"?

And of course, do you have any thoughts about the secret sets I've presented above?

Thanks in advance!

[dindenver]

Simon,
  In my mind the Yakuza Secret you have listed would be used by someone who was not Yakuza.
  Instead, I see Secrets as something that represent what that culture is about. Like a Yakuza cultural secret might be something like:
Secret of Sacrifice
  Take a point of harm to turn a failure into a success (this represents the finger cutting ritual that Yakuza use to atone for their failures).

  I think if you do Abiolities, Keys and Secrets in this style, you will have more fun making them and more success with your group, no?

[Eero Tuovinen]

Looking good to me. A few comments on your crunch, strictly in consultative capasity...

• Yakuza Connections<

I'd drop this to two Pool, unless the yakuza is somehow all-encompassing in Shadowrun - I haven't read the game ever, so don't know.

• Bodyware<

You're setting an interesting power level here, this is sort of weak compared to how Secrets usually roll in the Solar System. The more usual power level would be to have the Secret allow an unlimited spend from the Pool. I guess this is partly compensated by the gateway nature of the Secret, but I wouldn't myself hesitate to have both effects in one.

• Wired Reflexes<

This is a bit weak(ish), as it's only useful in extended conflict; usually I'd expect players to be able to leverage their cyberware in most situations, unless it's explicitly described as the sort of Ability that has no practical use without this sort of Secret explicitly allowing it. Check out the Secret of Synergy from the booklet to see my thoughts on how to make this ability worthwhile. There are other things you can do with the notion of "great reflexes", too:

Cortex Bypass (Ability)
The character is so fast in a predetermined range of situations (represented by the chosen Ability) that his actions can only be resisted with Passive Abilities, actions on a whole another scale of speed or prior preparation. Cost: 1 Pool (whatever is appropriate, I don't know what you're using) per check.

• Smartlink<

I like, it's not as overpowering as the classical Harm-adder. Goes into detail of combat, though; presumably your game is pretty hot on the fighting chrome, considering how detailed you're being about it.

• Combat Adept<

As above, seems a bit weak to me. Then again, looking at the overall landscape - man, you're running some minimalist stuff here, very low-powered! Interesting, and it just might be that being able to get some bonus dice this way is worthwhile when all other sources are so rare and expensive.

I'd still try to think up some worthwhile benefit for this outside of extended conflict, just because that way it wouldn't be dependent on declaring one to still matter. I sort of like the idea from the booklet that outside extended conflict you could roll both your Abilities and make the better result primary, instead of the normal procedure. That might be too powerful for your landscape here, though.

• Spellcaster<

I like this spellcasting structure. If I'm understanding this correctly, "spellcaster" is a generalist mage, while the specialists each only get their own specialty, but also get the bunch of benefits listed in their respective Secrets.

If this is so, how do the spellcasting Abilities work without the specialty Secrets - for instance, you specify in Secret of Conjurer that the conjurer can use Conjuring to bind elemental spirits - does this mean that a generic spellcaster can't bind spirits with Conjuring, which he still presumably can learn? If so, what can he do with Conjuring?

Also, do the Conjurer and Shaman actually differ from each other in any appreciable way apart from a slight color difference? This might be obvious in the Shadowrun context, but from the rules it just seems that they get spirit Effects with different names. Is there some unspoken contextual limitations here for when and what these magicians can use their magic for?

• Mystic Healer<

I'd add that he can also heal people supernaturally fast. This is probably obvious to you, of course.

Now, my players asked me for more "world secrets", like more specific social secrets, and I'm happy to oblige. But I've sort of run dry of nice mechanics to use. The Secret of Yakuza Connections can of course be copy-pasted to every imaginable sub-culture, but that's a bit dull, isn't it?

It's not a problem to offer that generic possibility, but of course giving more specific stuff as well provides nuance.

To start generating some more crunch of this sort, please tell us a bit about how you see Shadowrun - what are the interesting world materials in it? I have some rough understanding of the genre what with magic and cybernetics mixing, but it seems your players are thinking of more specific setting stuff when they refer to "world secrets". What things are there in the Shadowrun world? Nationalities, religions, important corporations, subcultural lifestyles? If this were Cyberpunk 2020, the chosen Cyberpunk game of my youth, I'd know exactly what to suggest.

I'll be happy to suggest some mechanics if you first give a hint about what sort of stuff there is in the setting to mechanize. A bit difficult to know where to start without that.

Also, Dave has sort of a point - Yakuza is a fine starting point, but your Secret does pretty much presume that this character is just a tidily acquainted guy who gets all the benefits and none of the drawbacks of being Yakuza. I know that Shadowrun is the sort of game where the characters are eternal loners with only their machine guns and laser katanas to comfort them, but you have an opportunity here to provide a more in-dept look into the setting if you want: give interesting crunch resources for players willing to tie their characters into Yakuza with bonds of blood. That's sure to become dramatic fodder in a much more direct manner than "I know some Yakuza guys, but I can always walk out of here if you want".

[shadowcourt]

Interesting comments, Eero. I wonder how you view what I think Simon is getting at in terms of Secrets like Wired Reflexes.

Are you saying that a Secret which lets you generate an Effect in the same round that you'd normally be performing some other type of action is weakish...? Seriously?

Can't Effects generate multiple bonus dice on the spot, for the cost of a pool point? I had assumed that the fact that you CAN'T normally do this AND deal Harm in the same round of BDTP in The Solar System is because that was so demonstrably powerful. Maybe it's just me and my skewed vantage on limiting bonus dice coming over from chains, but being able to choose to generate Effects and deal Harm in the same roun seems tremendous.

-shadowcourt (aka Josh)

[Eero Tuovinen]

What makes that Secret of Wired Reflexes a bit on the weak side in the default TSoY crunch landscape is comparison to the old Secret of Synergy that basically allows you to do this sort of thing freely with any and all Abilities you might have. Synergy, in turn, is balanced next to other options because of the availability of cheap bonus dice from uncapped Pool dice (from Secret of Enchancement) and the Gift of Dice. Getting to make support checks in extended conflict is not seriously overly powerful in this crunch landscape, as it still requires you to have invested in another Ability that can be considered useful in this particular situation.

My largest gripe with the old Secret of Synergy is not primarily related to its strength, though, but to the fact that it's only useful in BDtP and the relative lack of flavour. The latter is not a problem with the Secret of Wired Reflexes, but the former would seem to be.

Creating Effects without expending actions would potentially be pretty powerful in extended conflict, but as far as I can see, Wired Reflexes just allows a support check, not an Effect.

[Simon JB]

Thanks, all, for your input! I will reply specifically to Eeros long post here, because as far as I can see this will also adress other questions in the thread. Poke me if I miss anything!

Looking good to me. A few comments on your crunch, strictly in consultative capasity...

• Yakuza Connections<

I'd drop this to two Pool, unless the yakuza is somehow all-encompassing in Shadowrun - I haven't read the game ever, so don't know.

My thought was that I would avoid a discount just because it is slightly more specific than the generic Secret of Contacts, not least since I like it when pools hit bottom, since that leads to refreshment scenes, and those we like. Maybe I am a bit too hard here, though.

• Bodyware<

You're setting an interesting power level here, this is sort of weak compared to how Secrets usually roll in the Solar System. The more usual power level would be to have the Secret allow an unlimited spend from the Pool. I guess this is partly compensated by the gateway nature of the Secret, but I wouldn't myself hesitate to have both effects in one.

Yes, but there is an important difference here from the default Secret of Training: this secret affects not only one Ability, but any appropriate Ability for a task where the cyberware should be of assistance. Reasonable?

• Wired Reflexes<

This is a bit weak(ish), as it's only useful in extended conflict; usually I'd expect players to be able to leverage their cyberware in most situations, unless it's explicitly described as the sort of Ability that has no practical use without this sort of Secret explicitly allowing it. Check out the Secret of Synergy from the booklet to see my thoughts on how to make this ability worthwhile. There are other things you can do with the notion of "great reflexes", too:

Cortex Bypass (Ability)
The character is so fast in a predetermined range of situations (represented by the chosen Ability) that his actions can only be resisted with Passive Abilities, actions on a whole another scale of speed or prior preparation. Cost: 1 Pool (whatever is appropriate, I don't know what you're using) per check.

And:

• Combat Adept<

As above, seems a bit weak to me. Then again, looking at the overall landscape - man, you're running some minimalist stuff here, very low-powered! Interesting, and it just might be that being able to get some bonus dice this way is worthwhile when all other sources are so rare and expensive.

I'd still try to think up some worthwhile benefit for this outside of extended conflict, just because that way it wouldn't be dependent on declaring one to still matter. I sort of like the idea from the booklet that outside extended conflict you could roll both your Abilities and make the better result primary, instead of the normal procedure. That might be too powerful for your landscape here, though.Quote

• Smartlink<

I like, it's not as overpowering as the classical Harm-adder. Goes into detail of combat, though; presumably your game is pretty hot on the fighting chrome, considering how detailed you're being about it.

Yes, I decided I didn't want this secret to make it more likely you win over your opponent by getting a higher success level for comparing opposed rolls, other secrets, like Wired Reflexes, do that, but instead make your shots more deadly when you get a chance to hit. An interesting effect is that it makes it slightly more advantageous to choose parallell actions in combat, since you know you will be able to use this secret to increase the punch of your shooting.

Is this what you mean by going into detail of combat? I didn't really get that part.

Oh, and Chrome is simply the pool that relates to using tech and tools of all kinds, from guns and cars to cyberware and computers. The other pools are Flesh and Mana, but I'll let their names stand as description for the time being.

• Spellcaster<

I like this spellcasting structure. If I'm understanding this correctly, "spellcaster" is a generalist mage, while the specialists each only get their own specialty, but also get the bunch of benefits listed in their respective Secrets.

If this is so, how do the spellcasting Abilities work without the specialty Secrets - for instance, you specify in Secret of Conjurer that the conjurer can use Conjuring to bind elemental spirits - does this mean that a generic spellcaster can't bind spirits with Conjuring, which he still presumably can learn? If so, what can he do with Conjuring?

Also, do the Conjurer and Shaman actually differ from each other in any appreciable way apart from a slight color difference? This might be obvious in the Shadowrun context, but from the rules it just seems that they get spirit Effects with different names. Is there some unspoken contextual limitations here for when and what these magicians can use their magic for?

I was so happy when I got the idea of how to do drain in this system. The magician can take several levels of drain, increasing the success level of her magic ability roll more than one step, by taking one level 1 harm for each level. Of course the harm levels roll up, so you can easily fill upp your harm track by using powerful magic. Which is just the way it should be in the setting. Mmmm, hehe.

Yes, you can build a magician in several ways. I have not included the ability list here, but some spellcasting abilities are Combat Mage (fireballs, force fields etc), Healer and Manipulation<

• Mystic Healer<

I'd add that he can also heal people supernaturally fast. This is probably obvious to you, of course.

Right, of course they can do that, but I'll put it in the text as well. Thanks.

To start generating some more crunch of this sort, please tell us a bit about how you see Shadowrun - what are the interesting world materials in it? I have some rough understanding of the genre what with magic and cybernetics mixing, but it seems your players are thinking of more specific setting stuff when they refer to "world secrets". What things are there in the Shadowrun world? Nationalities, religions, important corporations, subcultural lifestyles? If this were Cyberpunk 2020, the chosen Cyberpunk game of my youth, I'd know exactly what to suggest.

I'll be happy to suggest some mechanics if you first give a hint about what sort of stuff there is in the setting to mechanize. A bit difficult to know where to start without that.

Also, Dave has sort of a point - Yakuza is a fine starting point, but your Secret does pretty much presume that this character is just a tidily acquainted guy who gets all the benefits and none of the drawbacks of being Yakuza. I know that Shadowrun is the sort of game where the characters are eternal loners with only their machine guns and laser katanas to comfort them, but you have an opportunity here to provide a more in-dept look into the setting if you want: give interesting crunch resources for players willing to tie their characters into Yakuza with bonds of blood. That's sure to become dramatic fodder in a much more direct manner than "I know some Yakuza guys, but I can always walk out of here if you want".

[Eero Tuovinen]

That's great stuff on what makes Shadowrun run! I know where I'm going to riff with this, I just don't have the time right now, have to get a project done before I can get some sleep. Short answers to a couple of points:

I don't particularly think that limiting a Secret to only where cybernetics can help you or only to all combat is that much different from limiting based on a single Ability. I don't think that this power level is wrong in any way, mind, but it is lower than the default: it is reasonably powerful to be able to buy as many bonus dice as you need for a given Ability, so if I had to choose between getting your "buy one bonus die for actions that use physical power or precision" and "buy unlimited bonus dice to fighting", I'd take the latter - heck, I'd take one for "Athletics" and still another one for "Hard work", and I'd pretty much cover everything one might want to use high power and precision for. And I'd beat pretty much anybody on the same Ability level, assuming that I have more than a couple of points of Pool.

It is really, truly OK to run it the way you do, though - it's lower in power, but that's not a problem. You just should give the players access to some other ways of spending their Pool, because it's important for system flexibility for characters to be able to "go nova" when the occasion necessitates it. The Pools are the expendable resources in the game, so if you're not allowing unlimited Pool spends on Ability checks (or you might - perhaps it's the next Secret up that tree?), perhaps characters could buy something else with Pool...

That could go many different ways, actually. I could see characters buying a lot of Effects with Pool, being that those are not affected by the lack of uncapped bonus die buys. It could be sort of interesting if only one of the Pools had a bonus dice buyer but couldn't create Effects, fruitful asymmetry... yes, I can see something interesting for some setting in that direction... but that's a different topic.

About combat focus - I just meant that even having crunch about such a detail as what sort of weapon a character wields is pretty combat-focused in the final calculation. This is, again, not a problem, and I'm sure it reflects the Shadowrun setting pretty well; it seems like the sort of game where you get a lot of weapon fetishism in the descriptions of everything.

Anyway, I really need to get my work finished and go get some sleep. I'll comment on some crunch ideas for Shadowrun during the weekend, if not before. I'm also reminded now that there are some Shadowrun topics on the old TSoY forums; you've probably checked them out, but there might be something useful there as well. I seem to remember that somebody was figuring out how to do the different Shadowrun races in the Solar System.

[Simon JB]

Looking forward to seeing your ideas!

I think the reason I want to stick with the general secrets like they are is that I want to award more specific secrets with being more potent because they tell us more about the character. Just having "Bodyware" or being a "Physical Adept" is rather dull in themselves, and that's why they are as they are. Things like Muscle Implants (unlimited pool dice for athletics) or Titanium Bone Lacing (unlimited pool dice in unarmed combat) is absolutely fine with me, side by side with the ones we're talking about.

Oh, and both me and my players like secret trees, so that's a very good way to go. I think I will have one like or some of that kind which enhances all the character's cyberware.

Thanks again for the input, and yeah, I've looked at those old threads, but maybe it's time to do it again...

[Simon JB]

Forgot:
I've wikified the crunch as it looks at the moment, with the current ability list, here on Solar Matter. Just for reference.